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From: K8_Dog
Date: 05-05-2004, 10:59 AM (1 of 17)
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I was reading about the fitting shell pattern Vogue makes. Apparently, you do some preliminary alterations to the pattern, and make the dress out of cheap fabric, and keep making adjustments to the dress, then to the pattern, to make a sort of master template that you can apply to all future patterns. Do people still do this (my book is from 1970, "The Vogue Sewing Book")? Is it worthwhile? It seems like because all dresses/coats/blouses etc fit differently and allow for different amounts of ease, it might not be too useful. Can you really apply the measurements to a variety of styles? On the other hand, I've been disappointed enough times by finished projects that don't fit right, that I'm willing to try this method. |
User: K8_Dog
Member since: 05-05-2004 Total posts: 26 |
From: LeapFrog Libby
Date: 05-05-2004, 11:25 AM (2 of 17)
I think they are called 'sloper' patterns in most pattern books.. I have seen them demonstrated on a lot of sewing shows.. The point is to find your measurements and refine a garment until it is a perfect fit. Then use it as a guideline to make sure any pattern you use to make a fashion outfit has the correct fit.. You are NOT supposed to make each pattern piece match the sloper pieces exactly for the reasons you mentioned.. Differences in ease, style, etc..I saw one demonstrated that made the most sense to me. It was made from gingham checks that were one inch square.. That helps to know exactly what each piece measures..
Sew With Love
Libby |
User: LeapFrog Libby
Member since: 05-01-2002 Total posts: 2022 
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From: MartySews
Date: 05-06-2004, 08:38 AM (3 of 17)
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Sloper patterns are wonderful. I had trouble fitting sleeves because one arm is larger than the other in the bicep area. With my sloper, I can lay the sleeve part on the pattern I want and make sure the dimensions are correct. That way my garment fits. It takes extra time but once one has a well fitted sloper, all other patterns are a breeze to make. Get a friend to help you make the sloper since we don't "really" have eyes in the back of our head. Use 1/2 inch gingham fabric for a perfectly on grain fit. Be sure that it is actual gingham and not printed. Once you've refined your sloper, you will be amazed at how well all of your garments fit. Happy Stitching! Marty It takes one moment to change a life.
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User: MartySews
Member since: 02-23-2003 Total posts: 504 
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From: paroper
Date: 05-06-2004, 09:52 AM (4 of 17)
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When I was in college I took flat pattern design as part of my degree. We worked with the slopers. The 1 inch gingham was used to get the grainline straight on our slopers...what you do is after you get your dimensions and fit right, you also have to check the grain to make sure that your sloper is correct. To make it easier, we basted a straight line on the gingham at the full part of the hips, bust, and of course, the waist should have been obvious. Then, we measured to the floor to make sure that the gingham was even at each point around the body, left hip, right hip, front, back, abdoman, bust to floor, shoulders to floor, etc. If the gainline didn't measure correctly at each point, we slashed and adjusted the gingham pattern and remade the part until it was grain perfect. Once we had the grain perfect (this makes your sloper's future patterns hang correctly), and a perfect fit for a fitted waisted dress, we CUT OFF the seam allowances, and CUT OUT the darts on the stitching lines, etc from the sloper. (My sloper had to have 8 darts in the skirt instead of 4 because of my strange hips and...at the time... flat abdoman.) What was left was the portion of a dress that would actually be exposed when you made the pattern up..anything that would be inside the dress was cut off. ...see next posting
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: paroper
Date: 05-06-2004, 10:04 AM (5 of 17)
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Once the fabric is trimmed out, we laid the fabric down on pieces of poster board and traced the pattern...drawing into the darts and marking the straight of grain up and down and across from the gingham pattern. This became the sloper and the basis for any future designs...now a days we would probably have laminated these pieces...we punched a hole in them and tied them together and hung them so they wouldn't be damaged. Because you have no seam allowances or darts, you can now design your new patterns without having to take those off...you can put a seam in the front of a dress, or back of a dress, or put on fold, whatever when you design your new pattern. This sloper can be used to make a full skirted dress, a straight dress, one with an empire, you can work the darts into the garment in seams, etc...by the way you lay out your pattern. This becomes the basic pattern from which you design everything. Properly making a sloper can be a real challenge and can be time consuming but it opens the door to a complete range of possibilities beyond just a good fit!
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: K8_Dog
Date: 05-06-2004, 11:06 AM (6 of 17)
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Thank you Libby, Pam, Marty. This operation seems pretty intense, but worthwhile. I think I almost understand what you were getting at, Pam-making a basis for future pattern designs. Using gingham and taking careful measurements from the lines to the floor after the garment is complete is a great plan (not explained in my book). I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean about the lack of seam allowances and darts giving the freedom for a variety of designs. On the sloper, you end up with big gashes into the pattern where the darts were, right? Is this a guide for where your darts must always go, or not? What exactly has to match from your new design to the sloper? The main bust, waist, hip measurements? Thanks for your patience and clarity. This is the most informational forum I've ever been a part of. You guys are great. |
User: K8_Dog
Member since: 05-05-2004 Total posts: 26 |
From: paroper
Date: 05-06-2004, 12:16 PM (7 of 17)
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When you make your sloper, you have "holes" where the darts used to be and those darts can actually be moved or removed in a future pattern...an easy example....if you had a dart whose top went straight across the bust line from one side to the other...you could make a yoke that was straight on that line...and the piece that attached to the bottom of that yoke could have the dart totally removed...when it was sewn, you would have a straight yoke with no dart and a dress with no dart. The space of the dart has to go someplace, but it can be rotated so that it comes down from the arm hole or it can be put into a princess seam where you take the waist dart and the bust dart out and put them into the lines of the dress. You can also rotate the dart so that it comes from a different direction...like the straight dresses we used to have where the dart came from the hipline. It is easiest to see with a book to look at, but you would take your sloper and trace it off on paper, marking where the darts and everything would go...no seam allowances. Then, you can cut out your darts and draw a straight line up from the point of the bustline dart and the waist to bust darts to find the center of your bustline. After you cut your dart, you can then slash on the paper (not your sloper) and open that line so you can rotate the dart to change where the fullness goes in the pattern. The reason you take your seams and all out is because you don't want to figure extra fullness into your new dress by accident. If you are making a straight dress from the sloper, you match the center lines and center front, straighten the dress at the center...then you can slash your pattern and pivot it to the sides to get the side line...there will be gaps and over laps. From the basic sloper, the dress I made in college had a roll collar, long leg of mutton sleeves (full at the top, narrow at the bottom) with cuffs, low back, the front of the dress was a princess line with a slightly gathered skirt that met at the side front with no waistline in the front. In the center front, it had an x where I had removed all darts from the front of the dress...it was actually prettier than it sounds. I wanted to do as much as I could to my sloper to determine how to use each of the parts...slashing the top of the sleeve to make a full top, removing the darts, lowering the back, etc, were avenues to see what could be done with the sloper so that I would remember how later. pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: paroper
Date: 05-06-2004, 12:26 PM (8 of 17)
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The more you work with your sloper in design, the more you understand about how alterations work. I think that the hardest alteration for me is for a full bustline. Working with the sloper makes it easier and teaches you how to alter for full shoulders or square shoulders, dowagers hump, etc.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: K8_Dog
Date: 05-11-2004, 11:23 AM (9 of 17)
| Thank you all for your help and advice. I have some simple projects to finish, but when I'm done and rested, i think I'll give this a try. |
User: K8_Dog
Member since: 05-05-2004 Total posts: 26 |
From: paroper
Date: 05-11-2004, 11:39 AM (10 of 17)
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Have fun!
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: pucktricks
Date: 05-12-2004, 09:33 AM (11 of 17)
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Now, here's my question: which pattern is it in the books? Because I keep seeing references to it and what it should look like in the book, but have never seen a pattern that I would say is a sloper pattern. So, where do I find it? Ticia |
User: pucktricks
Member since: 03-31-2004 Total posts: 570 
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From: paroper
Date: 05-12-2004, 09:39 AM (12 of 17)
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I hope that someone can give you a pattern number. IN the "old days" every pattern company had one and it was accompanied by a couple of pages of fitting information in the pattern book. It is a fitted sheath dress with a waistline and slim fitted sleeves and high round neck...in otherwords, everything was fitted and it covered everything. Any pattern that had those basic lines would be usable. Some had two darts at the waistline, others had 4 in the skirt and top portion (and one in the bustline).
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: paroper
Date: 05-12-2004, 10:42 AM (13 of 17)
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I found it...vogue pattern 1004 suggested price 20.00. Sizes are 6-22. If I were buying this pattern, I would buy strictly by my measurments and their chart. Vogue fits pretty true and since this is a fitting sloper pattern, the built in "wiggle room" or ease should be minimul standards.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: pucktricks
Date: 05-12-2004, 04:27 PM (14 of 17)
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thank you, thank you, thank you (I was going to make that fancier, but could not figure out how to let me do more than one thing) Now to figure out the other companies. Ticia |
User: pucktricks
Member since: 03-31-2004 Total posts: 570
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From: MartySews
Date: 05-12-2004, 04:42 PM (15 of 17)
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In the Butterick catalog, I believe it is the last page of the section for dresses. This may also be true of Simplicity and McCall's. I watch for the $1.99 or 99 cents sale on patterns that Hancock Fabrics and JoAnn's offer each month. Happy Stitching! Marty
It takes one moment to change a life.
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User: MartySews
Member since: 02-23-2003 Total posts: 504
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From: K8_Dog
Date: 05-13-2004, 11:12 AM (16 of 17)
| In the McCall's Catalogue, its number 2718 and in Butterick 6092. How much does it matter which one we use? If I use Vogue patterns most frequently, it seems to make sense that I use their fitting pattern. I'd love to take a class where we could do this project as a group. Do you think they exist? |
User: K8_Dog
Member since: 05-05-2004 Total posts: 26 |
From: paroper
Date: 05-13-2004, 12:12 PM (17 of 17)
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It was a standard college course where I attended (home ec major). You might try colleges, Jr. colleges, tech centers, etc. As far as which pattern...I'd use the pattern company that I most used...however I think that Vogue and Butterick put less ease in their patterns and they fit a little closer than McCalls or Simplicity which might be a little better for this particular type of application. I usually prefer Vogue and Butterick for slender, youthful figures because of the fit and I like McCalls or Simplicity for the more mature figures.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
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