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From: Raulaniesa
Date: 05-27-2005, 12:24 PM (1 of 15)
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I have done a bit of reading on pattern drafting, and have found that designers often use 1 "base" pattern which they revamp for different styles of the same item (ie. a blouse or pair of pants) I am wondering if I were to take the sketches I have made on my own to the store and found a basic pattern that looked similar to it, rather than trying to draft my own pattern by hand (which i have never done and wouldn't know where to start with) would i be infringing on the copyrights held by the pattern company? My thinking was that if I were using this basic store bought pattern as a "sloper" and tweaking it to my design specifications that I would be ok because slopers are used all of the time in the "fashion world" and I have read that there are large (expensive) books for sale somewhere of slopers that are used frequently. As I've read here before, there are only so many ways to draw/pattern/make a basic shirt or pair of pants. If I were to date my sketches (which I do anyway for my own record keeping) and kept receipts of store bought patterns in my files, does anyone know, off hand, if I would be breaking copyright laws? Thanks in advance, and thank you for this wonderful forum. I am learning so much as I read the archived posts! |
User: Raulaniesa
Member since: 05-18-2005 Total posts: 4 |
From: DragonLady
Date: 05-27-2005, 01:43 PM (2 of 15)
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Yes, you would be infringing on copyrights by doing that. The modified patterns are "derivative works" and are illegal. If you are just making the item for yourself, you're okay...as long as you paid for the original pattern. You can slice it, dice it and mash it into anything you want, because it is your private property. But under no circumstances can you sell the modified pattern as your own, nor can you make items with it for sale. Sorry.  OTOH, there are lots of good books available that will show you step-by-step how to draft your own patterns. Keep all of your rough sketches, and date each item you draft. If you decide to sell the pattern you've made or items you've made from it, it's probably worth the money to copyright it yourself so you won't have any worries. "No more twist! No more twist!"
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User: DragonLady
Member since: 11-10-2004 Total posts: 152 
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From: Sancin
Date: 05-27-2005, 05:42 PM (3 of 15)
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Sorry Dragon Lady, I don't agree. Raulaniesa doesn't say she wants to sell her designs but even if she did, it seems she is only taking the basic shape to make a sloper. A sloper is just an outline of a specific person's shape and measurements. If Raulaniesa were to buy a pattern as a base for her own slopper she would be essentially be making her own slopper. After all how many ways does a bodice sloper look? I bet if you lined up all the designer bodice slopers you couldn't tell them apart. It's rather like an recipe I had for sweet yeast breads. I made a base, then split it in 4 and each bread was different. The key here is the term base. I understand where she is coming from. I design and make my own clothes from a basic pattern I have developed over a number of years, but that basic pattern was taken from a pair of purchased pants that fit well, a purchased pattern layed over it and has since been adapted many times. It is very plain and I make design changes to the basic, even when my weight and shape chages. I developed ideas for making the pattern from many different books. It is called learning. Cheers *~*~*~* Nancy*~*~*~* " I try to take one day at a time - but sometimes several days attack me at once."
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User: Sancin
Member since: 02-13-2005 Total posts: 895 
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From: DragonLady
Date: 05-27-2005, 11:39 PM (4 of 15)
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Raulaniesa posted in the "business" section, so I assume she means for resale. I said that if she's doing it for personal use she's fine. If you want to use a commercial pattern for items you're selling, you have to: 1) Buy a seperate pattern for each different person you make the items for. That means if 15 people in a wedding party are paying you for identical dresses, you have to buy 15 copies of the pattern. 2) Get permission from the pattern's copyright owners. Some companies are willing to work with you, some aren't. It never hurts to ask but it can hurt big time to be sued. 3) So far as "slopers" being all alike...that isn't true. Every company uses a different set of measurements, a different amount of ease and different construction methods. The work of different engineers is as different as fingerprints if you know what to look for. They can spot their own work, and they will sue you. But no one has to take my word for it. Just do a search on Google and spend a few hours reading (I did). The consequences of infringing someone's copyright just isn't worth the few bucks you might save by trying to skirt the laws. "No more twist! No more twist!"
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User: DragonLady
Member since: 11-10-2004 Total posts: 152
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From: seamstress16
Date: 05-28-2005, 03:05 PM (5 of 15)
| I'm not really sure about this issue, but I am having the same problem. I called a copyright and patent lawyer and he said that if you change the store bought pattern some, you wouldn't be in any legal trouble. But, he said that you probably wouldn't be able to change the pattern enough to call it your own. He didn't say exactly how much it needs to be changed. But, I did a search on about.com and there is a whole long article about copyrights for clothing designs and it says that even if you change the way the buttons are put on a shirt from another design you saw, that is no longer the same design. So, I'm not quite sure what to think. |
User: seamstress16
Member since: 01-29-2005 Total posts: 88 |
From: DragonLady
Date: 05-28-2005, 07:58 PM (6 of 15)
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seamstress16, from what I've read simply changing something isn't enough. You have to change it so much that it's beyond recognition.
"No more twist! No more twist!"
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User: DragonLady
Member since: 11-10-2004 Total posts: 152
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From: seamstress16
Date: 05-28-2005, 10:26 PM (7 of 15)
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But, on that copyright website that I checked, it said that you only have to change a minor detail on the garment to make it a new design. That's how you get clothes that are similar to each other. If all the patterns had to be changed beyond recognition, then there would never be any similar looking clothing. In fact, on that website, it mentioned how clothing designers often get ripped off, because you only have to make small changes to a garment to call it your own. But, like I said, I'm not positive. I will call the U. S. copyright office on Tuesday and find out for sure and post my findings. Aha! I've found the answer. Okay, using store bought patterns and changing them is AGAINST the LAW. However, using the DESIGN is not. You can see a dress in a store window, go home and make the exact same thing. It is when you use the actual pattern even if you totally change it, where the copyright laws kick in. I read this on a back-post of Sew What's New. Check it out if you'd like. |
User: seamstress16
Member since: 01-29-2005 Total posts: 88 |
From: DragonLady
Date: 05-28-2005, 11:13 PM (8 of 15)
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Okay, using store bought patterns and changing them is AGAINST the LAW. However, using the DESIGN is not. I thought that was the case. I tried to post a bit more about this earlier, but my computer malfunctioned. Yes, you can take apart an existing garment -that you did NOT make with a pattern, and copy it exactly. The garment itself is not copyrighted. "No more twist! No more twist!"
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User: DragonLady
Member since: 11-10-2004 Total posts: 152
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From: chris b
Date: 05-30-2005, 10:21 AM (9 of 15)
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Be careful about legal advice from a website,most of them don't know what they are talking about. Dragonlady is telling you the truth.You can't change something and make it yours.I've talked to an attorney myself and got the exact opposite advice the one you saw gave you.You can also look up the copyright office and they give you lots of info but I don't have the url handy. Yes it is perfectly legal to be inspired by a design.Sketch your own and draft it.That is how all of the runway dresses end up in the discount stores too. Pfaff 2170,Pfaff 7570,Elna 945
Singer 301A,Singer Redeye,Singer 15 HC Simplicity 2/3/4 Pfaff Creative 3-D digitizing,3-D Fabric Decorator Pfaff PCDMac2.2 StitchBunnyPro,FlutterWhumper Embird,Studio,cross stitch, EQ5....and adding all the time! |
User: chris b
Member since: 01-10-2001 Total posts: 109 |
From: Raulaniesa
Date: 05-31-2005, 01:17 PM (10 of 15)
wow, talk about your fine lines of the law  So, according to this it would be ok for me to take a pair of pants and make a pattern from them to use as a sloper...and I could even use that sloper to make pants to sell to others. But using an actual store bought predrafted pattern is out of the question. I think I've got it now! I was having trouble distinguishing the facts because I too was running into conflicting information any time I read up on copyrights. Thank you so much for the information, it's so great to be able to ask these questions and get understandable answers! 
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User: Raulaniesa
Member since: 05-18-2005 Total posts: 4 |
From: Carol in ME
Date: 06-06-2005, 05:19 PM (11 of 15)
| There is a company that sells real slopers on the web. If you can slash and spread, (I never learned to pin and pivot) you can make a pattern. unfortunately, I never bookmarked the site. But the company exists, and you can get an entire set of missy sizes or womens' sizes, in either traditional style, with bust and waist darts, or princess style. I thought the price was reasonable: I think it was 40-50 dollars for each set. |
User: Carol in ME
Member since: 01-27-2003 Total posts: 105 |
From: June Harlow
Date: 06-06-2005, 07:19 PM (12 of 15)
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Here's an excellent 1942 article on "how to make slopers". It's probably more than anyone would want to know about slopers, but it explains step-by-step how it's done. It's much too complicated for my lil' peanut brain, I like working from patterns so I don't have to think http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-02.html June ~
"If only I could find that missing pattern piece!" June sews on a Pfaff 1209 and a Babylock 5180 serger |
User: June Harlow
Member since: 05-30-2005 Total posts: 100 
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From: meaghane
Date: 06-08-2005, 10:05 AM (13 of 15)
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This whole thread is along the lines of something I was going to post about!!! I've been trying to figure out how to come up with my own original children's clothing designs, so that I can look at starting my own business in the next few years, something I've wanted to do for the last five. My end game is to open a store that sells all things needlework, especially smocking supplies. Teach classes, sell garments, supplies, etc. It's going to take a while, but I'm going to do it LOL. The closest place to get supplies where I live is Little Rock, two and a half hours away. Even Shreveport, an hour away, has little to nothing in the way of specialty needlework, particularly smocking. Anyway, I have some design ideas, and I was looking around the web at copyright laws for sewing, and found a website for a company that will draft patterns for you from your designs. I don't know if I it is OK to post the link to a site like that on here, so just PM me if you want to know where it is. Anyway, since I have neither the skills nor the time to sit down and draft my own pattern, I'm seriously looking into this. Then, I'll have a pattern that is MY OWN copyright. My question, to anyone who might be able to answer it, is this: Does anyone know of ANY pattern companies that will allow you to buy a license to one of their patterns?? I can take just about ANY pattern and adapt it for smocking, but without permission, I can't sell it. Which makes things difficult, but I understand why. At any rate, I can tell you that the following companies do NOT allow this: Simplicity, McCalls, and Ellen McCarn. I'm still researching and trying to find some more that might allow this, but so far, no luck. I'd be willing to pay for licensing, but I guess I can understand how companies don't allow that. So let me get this straight: You can look at a finished garment on the racks, go home, and DUPLICATE the design and sell it, but you can't use a pattern to do so. Right? So how can the companies tell if you did that? I certainly wouldn't want to get in trouble because a company THINKS I used a pattern. I guess maybe there are enough subtle differences between the two?? This is a tricky business. Meg
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User: meaghane
Member since: 06-03-2000 Total posts: 433 
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From: seamstress16
Date: 06-10-2005, 09:44 AM (14 of 15)
| You can see a dress in a window, go home and duplicate the design for YOURSELF. But, if you sell it, it's a violation of the copyright. I haven't had much luck beyond this, in finding out about this whole copyright thing. I tried several copyright and patent lawyers to ask for information, and they were no help at all. |
User: seamstress16
Member since: 01-29-2005 Total posts: 88 |
From: Carol in ME
Date: 06-10-2005, 04:51 PM (15 of 15)
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Figuring out for yourself how to copy a design, shape the pattern pieces to get the desired drape, calculate the order of construction, is legal. Taking a pattern that the pattern co. created so a person could build a single dress, and using that to produce a line of clothing isn't. The only analogy I can come up with is this: it's perfectly okay, expected even, to study algebra, learn the rules and theorums, and pass the test. It's possible, too, to memorize the answers and spew them out in the correct order, acing the test. In the first method, you learn the material. You could probably contact PACC and find someone in your area to draft and grade patterns for you. Perfectly legal, and gives money to a local person rather than a big impersonal company. Be prepared to pay more than $1.99 per pattern. |
User: Carol in ME
Member since: 01-27-2003 Total posts: 105 |
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