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From: MaryW
Date: 06-07-2005, 12:44 PM (1 of 36)
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What do you think the jury will say to Michael Jackson? Will he get fined, community service, jail time or ??? I think he will walk away but his reputation and career are finished. MaryW
owner/editor of Sew Whats New |
User: MaryW
Member since: 06-23-2005 Total posts: 2542 
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From: SummersEchos
Date: 06-07-2005, 08:48 PM (2 of 36)
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I think he will walk also and I don't think he will be ruined at all. His loyal fans will remain loyal, and I wouldn't be surprised if he does another album to tell everyone how hard life has been for this good ole boy. Maybe do his own mini-series. He has alway had something going on in his life and profited from it it seems to me. I have no idea in this case who is telling the truth, and I don't think we ever will know. Just my thoughts, I may be full of beans here. Summer Summer
FREE FALLIN |
User: SummersEchos
Member since: 09-29-2004 Total posts: 884 |
From: dmoses
Date: 06-07-2005, 09:24 PM (3 of 36)
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His jail cell is ready and waiting for him, should he be convicted. He will be isolated, but with liberal visitation rights, and they will consider him a suicide risk, so will have him monitored 24 hrs/day. He will have to wear the prison uniform...pants and a sweatshirt-style top...That would probably be the worst of his ordeal. Apparently, it's a nice prison. I don't know if he will be convicted, but the jury has a lot to think about, and they seem to be taking the time to consider all the 'smoke and mirrors'. What do you think of Russell Crowe and his temper tantrums...Isn't it time for him to grow up??? Oh well, I will just add both of them to my list of people/places to boycott. Take care,
Donna |
User: dmoses
Member since: 02-22-2002 Total posts: 964 
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From: Mother in Law
Date: 06-07-2005, 11:31 PM (4 of 36)
I don't know what to think. If he's guilty he should be locked up and the keys thrown away so he can't do it to anyone else, but if he's truly inocent I think it's terrible that someone would accuse someone of doing something so horrible as what he is accused of just for the money. There are a lot of innocent people behind bars because of lies and false testimony. I think he's a little weird but being weird doesn't make you a child molester, not saying I think he's innocent or guilty, I have no opinion of that because I haven't been following the trail that closely.  I think they will convict him, the press already has.
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User: Mother in Law
Member since: Total posts: |
From: allie-oops
Date: 06-08-2005, 01:53 AM (5 of 36)
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Unfortunately, I think he'll walk. But after all the interviews I've seen with him, [there is a morbid fascination] I think he's a classic pedophile. They don't hate children, you know...they love them, in an unacceptable way, but they feel they're being very loving to children. That British interview he did, where he said the most loving thing you can do for a child is to share your bed, said it all for me. *shudder* Let's face it, Hollyweird has NOTHING to do with real life, and neither do the people who inhabit it. Every now and then real life comes up and smacks them in the head, like Russell and Michael are going through now, and they freak out. I can't stand any of them. They don't live in my world, and I would hate to live in theirs. On a side note, PBS called my home tonight to ask for a donation, and the guy asked me what shows I'm watching these days. I told him my tv was off for the summer. I think I gave him heart failure. 
"onward through the fog"
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User: allie-oops
Member since: 10-25-2002 Total posts: 282 
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From: MaryW
Date: 06-08-2005, 09:58 AM (6 of 36)
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One of the problems is that his accuser is just as weird. She has sued people and companies just for the $$$. That kind of clouds the issue. Neither Michael or she can be trusted really.
MaryW
owner/editor of Sew Whats New |
User: MaryW
Member since: 06-23-2005 Total posts: 2542
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From: dmoses
Date: 06-08-2005, 10:53 AM (7 of 36)
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I agree her character is questionable, which is great for the defence... ...but, he is accused of several things, and she is not the accuser in the most serious charge(in my opinion). She isn't the victim of the alleged molestation. Also, she is not on trial for anything...yet. There were other witnesses who seemed to support the evidence for the charge, but the mother of the victim seems to be the only one 'interesting' enough to the media to warrant attention. News isn't news anymore...who cares about facts when the ratings are at stake! He did not take the stand in his own defence, but the defence cleverly let him 'testify' through snippets of video, where no cross examination was possible...Who do they think they're fooling??? My opinion only, of course, and not worth a row of beans to anyone else!  Oh, how cynical I've become... 
Take care,
Donna |
User: dmoses
Member since: 02-22-2002 Total posts: 964
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From: Chrysantha
Date: 06-08-2005, 12:12 PM (8 of 36)
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I think the whole mess is just too weird...Michael Jackson is pitiful...he's led a bizarre life, he's never really grown up. He does things to himself, that he thinks are improvements, but they're just making him freaky. I think he has talent, imagination and a gift to share... I also think he needed some guidence as a child, not abuse from his parents, managers, whoever he came in contact with. I think the accuser and his family is just out for some bucks, Mr. Jackson isn't the only person they wanted money from. I find his wanting to have children around him all the time disturbing. But that doesn't make him a pedofile. it just makes him weird and sad. I feel sorriest for all the people who've had to testify, have to sit on the jury and those 'fans' that put their lives on hold for 'liking to be near a celebrity'. The whole thing is a waste of time, money, effort and the part of the state, t.v., newspapers and magazines. Michael is to be pitied, but the's really NOT that interesting. Chrys
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User: Chrysantha
Member since: 09-06-2002 Total posts: 2414 
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From: MaryW
Date: 06-08-2005, 12:31 PM (9 of 36)
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I agree, he is totally gifted. If that gift had not been so over exposed when he was a kid, maybe he wouldn't be in some of this mess. He never had a chance to be a kid, always working. The tv station last night said he was a high risk for suicide. I can certainly understand that with all he has done and been thru.
MaryW
owner/editor of Sew Whats New |
User: MaryW
Member since: 06-23-2005 Total posts: 2542
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From: Dede
Date: 06-08-2005, 12:45 PM (10 of 36)
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He is the only one who knows the truth. The guy is in his own bubble and I also believe he has a legitimate love for children. I just hope he'll get the help he needs, guilty or not. He's been living in lala land all his life and I don't think he has any idea what reality is all about. Where are the parents in all this?????? Where were they when their child were alone with Michael Jackson at his place? I know Michael is Michael but there is no way I would have left my kids with a stranger, well known or not, for any amount of time. If my kids would have wanted to see him, I would have been there and my kid would have slept at home, my home. |
User: Dede
Member since: 03-23-2001 Total posts: 469 |
From: dmoses
Date: 06-08-2005, 01:37 PM (11 of 36)
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I find it very hard to pity a 46 year old man who invites boys to sleep in his room with him, gives them alcohol, and shows them explicit magazines. He has lived more than three times as long as his alleged victim(s). No matter how he was raised, he is a grownup now, and has enough life experience to know right from wrong. Maybe he just didn't learn self-discipline. He is shrewd enough to build a child's fantasyland as his home, to seek out certain types of individuals to 'share' it with, and to surround himself with people who are willing to look the other way.
Take care,
Donna |
User: dmoses
Member since: 02-22-2002 Total posts: 964
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From: Catalina
Date: 06-08-2005, 03:28 PM (12 of 36)
| If he is quilty I hope he is found quilty and vice versa. Then I think the parents should be brought up on charges for endangering their children. What mother in their right mind would allow their young son or daughter to sleep in bed with an adult other than them. I wouldn't even allow that behavior with a relative. Michael is different thats for sure, but that doesn't make him quilty, I'd be different too if I had led his life. I just hope the right verdict is reached. There are innocent people in prison and quilty ones let loose. If I was on a jury if there was any doubt in my mind, and if there was not clear cut evidence of quilt I would not convict. Better a quilty man free than a innocent man imprissoned in my opinion. |
User: Catalina
Member since: 01-06-2005 Total posts: 119 |
From: paroper
Date: 06-08-2005, 04:38 PM (13 of 36)
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I think that Michael Jackson is guilty but I certainly don't think that he has any idea that what he did was wrong. He is a very sick man...just look at him! I think that he can't stand who he is and probably doesn't even know who he is. He is obviously addicted to surgery. We have heard for decades about his obsession with his health and purchase of strange health technologies (like oxygen chambers). People like that mess around and end up hurting their health and I think that he either is very sick or he is a hypocondriac...or both. He has been obsessed with health forever. I don't even want to think why he would change his complexion...that is just strange and there is no reason for it unless he has an illness and that is to mask the effects. I know that he was married on paper to the mother of his children, but they sure don't have a family resemblance...whatever that might be and I think they should be put up for adoption, I think that marriage was arranged and the woman isn't much of a mother if she didn't try to keep the kids, esp. if she suspected that he was a child molester. Most mothers would walk though fire for their kids. If she had anything on him she could have blackmailed him into letting her keep the kids because the courts would listen to her. I'm not sure if he needs prison, a padded cell or a prison with a padded cell but he DOES NOT need to be around children. I think he probably should be convicted because I truly think that he is guilty. If he is somehow kept away from children, I think that over the next few years we'll be hearing about his suicide. On the flip side, the mother of that boy had to be a nut case to allow her kid to be alone with an adult male, esp. one with his clouded reputation. She needs to be put away for child endangerment and her child needs to be taken from her. One GOOD thing is that if a civil case is brought, the money recovered for her child will be paid to her son and protected by court order..or at least it would be in Oklahoma. I hope that is true of California. The only one who is probably truly innocent in this case is probably the child. What child would not be intrigued by the attention of someone famous like Jackson? The child, regardless of the results of the case, needs to be put into a place where he can receive extensive counseling. pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: patti2
Date: 06-08-2005, 06:07 PM (14 of 36)
| I feel horrible for his own children.. going in public with covered faces, having to live with a parent even accused of the things they said he did!! You wonder if child protective services are looking into their well being... |
User: patti2
Member since: 05-28-2005 Total posts: 78 |
From: DragonLady
Date: 06-09-2005, 01:46 PM (15 of 36)
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I think I have 'reasonable doubt'. The man is so weird that I think he seems an easy target for vultures of every kind. I think Mom knew about the past accusations, and let her child stay in his room so she could extort money, time and attention from him & all those around him. Then, when his attention moved on, she planned to sue him. Her lawyer told her to persue criminal charges first, and there she is. One thing about celebrities -anyone with lots of money, really- is they can afford to fly 'round the world anytime. If MJ wanted to have sex with children, he had nothing stopping him from flying to Vietnam, Thailand, Brazil or any place else where he could've done so -legally, and with no repercussions or consequences. Even if he's too stupid to know that, the people he hires to take care of him are not. They would've put the bug in his ear, and probably arranged the whole thing. Afterall, if he's convicted they're out of a job and people who hire those kinds of helpers will never hire them again. Also, it seemed everyone in the case lied about something, somewhere. The mother lied in her suit against JC Penny's saying the security guards beat her & tried to rape her. The former employees lied about all kinds of stuff hoping MJ would pay them to shut up. The boy himself told several people -including a counsellor- that he wasn't molested in any way then suddenly changed his story. Either he was lying then or he's lying now. And Mom seems so self-serving and selfish. What kind of mother asks a man who is supposedly helping with her son's medical problems to pay for a wax job? Where are her priorities? If my son were that ill, I wouldn't spend a penny (of anyone's money) on such a personal and ultimately unneccesary procedure. It makes me see her as being out for whatever she can get from anyone and anywhere. Ultimately, this is a sad case and the truth is permanently obscured by the shady characters involved. I wouldn't be able to convict him on the evidence I've seen (in the media). Of course, the jury has seen other stuff that we haven't, and maybe they will be convinced to convict. "No more twist! No more twist!"
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User: DragonLady
Member since: 11-10-2004 Total posts: 152 
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From: dmoses
Date: 06-09-2005, 02:48 PM (16 of 36)
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I'm sure that MJ has been all over the world many times. How do we know whether or not he takes advantage of the 'freedoms' in those far away countries? Anyway, I doubt anyone, even MJ would want to fly all the way to Thailand just for that. By the way, I'm not sure of laws in the US, but I'm pretty sure that in Canada, citizens can be charged with a crime if they go anywhere else in the world and take advantage of underage children...no matter how the laws of the other country may be lacking. The jury is taking a lot of time. I guess they really have to sort through and ponder the evidence...and stick with the instructions given to them. It really could go either way. Take care,
Donna |
User: dmoses
Member since: 02-22-2002 Total posts: 964
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From: Dede
Date: 06-09-2005, 03:31 PM (17 of 36)
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Anyway, I doubt anyone, even MJ would want to fly all the way to Thailand just for that.. I saw a report not too long ago (I can't remember if it was 20/20 or ...) where reporters exposed men (we didn't see any women, not that it doesn't happen) who went in these countries exactly for that purpose. It was sickening - very troubling. The main attraction in this case was a doctor. He knew where to get anything you could possibly want. Went confronted, he denied any of it |
User: Dede
Member since: 03-23-2001 Total posts: 469 |
From: allie-oops
Date: 06-09-2005, 05:13 PM (18 of 36)
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I don't think he could've flown to Vietnam or anywhere else without some reporter finding out about it - he's so surrounded, and so well-known, I don't think he could get away with it. Yes, it's sickening what they do in those countries, there are whole groups devoted to the sex trade, especially in children......I'd love to round up all those kids and bring them home with me and keep them safe. It just makes me cry to think of what they endure. Didn't they just arrest a whole group of men, I think they were flying out of Detroit airport, before they could leave on one of those "tours"? I don't know how the world can just turn a blind eye to it. "onward through the fog"
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User: allie-oops
Member since: 10-25-2002 Total posts: 282
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From: dmoses
Date: 06-09-2005, 05:42 PM (19 of 36)
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The first time I saw a documentary about westerners going on those trips was about 15 years ago. It made me sick to my stomach then, and it does now. At least, there are some people who are trying to do something about it. There are organizations within the countries that are dedicated to rescuing the children from the brothels, and some other countries are criminalizing the behaviour of the adults. But, it still goes on. I just don't understand how people can be so cruel...people without a conscience, whose numbers seem to be multiplying exponentially.
Take care,
Donna |
User: dmoses
Member since: 02-22-2002 Total posts: 964
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From: DragonLady
Date: 06-10-2005, 03:03 AM (20 of 36)
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By the way, I'm not sure of laws in the US, but I'm pretty sure that in Canada, citizens can be charged with a crime if they go anywhere else in the world and take advantage of underage children...no matter how the laws of the other country may be lacking. [sigh]The best of good intentions, but bad precendant and really bad law.  We don't hesitate to let other countries throw our citizens in jail or cane them or otherwise uphold their laws. If we give up our "rights" when we visit another country, then we also give up our responsibility to the laws of this nation. By visiting another country, we have to uphold and abide by their rules, whether we agree with them or not -the good, the bad, and the ugly. And we don't have any right punishing our own citizens for acting like Romans while visiting Rome. The same with other people -we don't let citizens of other nations come here & break our laws; even if their behavior is perfectly legal whereever they came from. And we don't hesitate to let them partake of our freedoms, rights and priveledges even if doing so is against the laws of their respective countries. That is, if stealing is punishable by death where they came from, we nevertheless don't kill them for it here; they suffer the same punishments as our own citizens and nothing more. It would be wrong for us to allow them to come here, enjoy our freedom of speech and rights of due process just to send them home when their visas expire to suffer again for their actions here. And it's just as wrong to do that to our citizens, no matter how much we may dislike or disagree with the particular action in question. Sovereign nations are just that -sovereign, and we have no right to tell them what they should or should not allow. Just my two cents.... 
"No more twist! No more twist!"
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User: DragonLady
Member since: 11-10-2004 Total posts: 152
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From: dmoses
Date: 06-10-2005, 06:26 PM (21 of 36)
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I respectfully disagree. In cases where the basic human rights of any person, and especially those of a child are violated in such an inhuman way, I think the home countries of the violators have an obligation to seek justice. It's terrible that so many countries haven't taken this matter seriously enough, but that doesn't mean that everyone else should look the other way. The idea that well-to-do westerners will travel halfway around the world to violate some innocent defenceless child who is living in abject poverty is totally, absolutely, despicable. There is no way that anyone has a 'right' to do that. They may have been able to do it with impunity, but it is not their 'right'. Take care,
Donna |
User: dmoses
Member since: 02-22-2002 Total posts: 964
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From: MaryW
Date: 06-10-2005, 06:43 PM (22 of 36)
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Everybody said they thought they may have a verdict today. Friday seems to be the day of decisions. Did you see some of the characters that are waiting outside the courthouse. Good grief, they are coming from all over the world!
MaryW
owner/editor of Sew Whats New |
User: MaryW
Member since: 06-23-2005 Total posts: 2542
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From: paroper
Date: 06-10-2005, 10:08 PM (23 of 36)
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I, for one am glad this hasn't been an "instant" verdict. They've got a lot of material to mull over and I want them to do it right. We don't need any controversy like Scott Peterson. I hope that if it comes back guilty that people don't riot again...that gets old for everyone! From here on out though I expect them to start worrying about a hung jury...esp. if they aren't back by mid-week. I hope they come up with a clear verdict regardless of what it is. The issue is between him and the kid, not the entire family. I hope that they'll look at the real issue and the evidence and look at what consitutes a violation of the law. Chances are good because it is taking so long that they really are trying to do the right thing.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: DragonLady
Date: 06-10-2005, 10:14 PM (24 of 36)
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I would agree with you, dmoses, in this instance. Unfortunatly, such a law sets a precedence for other such laws. It has always been part of our social contract that if we don't like the laws of the USA, we have the right to leave. Cuba has open arms. Mexico is but a short drive away. _______ But!!! As I was typing this, my husband says that the laws here have always applied to our citizens wherever they are. The only way a US citizen can break any law of ours while in another country without being subject to prosecution by the US gov is if they renounce their citizenship. So, while I'm not sure I agree because of the far-reaching consequences, I guess that is the law and those who break it should certainly be held responsible. "No more twist! No more twist!"
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User: DragonLady
Member since: 11-10-2004 Total posts: 152
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From: SummersEchos
Date: 06-13-2005, 05:22 PM (25 of 36)
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Anyone surprised? Summer Summer
FREE FALLIN |
User: SummersEchos
Member since: 09-29-2004 Total posts: 884 |
From: dmoses
Date: 06-13-2005, 05:29 PM (26 of 36)
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So, the verdict is in. Not guilty on all counts. Even with the verdict, I think it will take a while for him to recover from this one. One of his spokespersons said several days ago that he vowed never to find himself in this situation again... Take care,
Donna |
User: dmoses
Member since: 02-22-2002 Total posts: 964
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From: MaryW
Date: 06-13-2005, 06:57 PM (27 of 36)
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I can't believe it.
MaryW
owner/editor of Sew Whats New |
User: MaryW
Member since: 06-23-2005 Total posts: 2542
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From: blessedmommyuv3
Date: 06-13-2005, 07:03 PM (28 of 36)
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I am incredibly surprised that all counts were not guilty---he wasn't even convicted of administration of alcohol to a minor????? Go figure. I think that the whole "smoking gun" issue is what is really throwing these juries. One juror actually just said at the news conference that he was waiting for a "smoking gun" in the case. I'm just curious what it actually would take for them to have convicted---would their have to have been videotaped evidence???  I really think that in this day and age without videotaped evidence or DNA, juries are really unlikely to convict; especially when the defendant is a celebrity. Sad....I have been watching the trial coverage daily on court tv in my sewing room, I cannot imagine how they arrived at this verdict. I would love to be able to ask them how many of them would be willing to allow their children to have a sleep over at Michael Jackson's house. After all, if he's not guilty...... Jen |
User: blessedmommyuv3
Member since: 05-18-2004 Total posts: 263 
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From: paroper
Date: 06-13-2005, 07:10 PM (29 of 36)
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I'm disappointed, but I think that if he did it, he'll do it again (sadly). People with that kind of problem don't stop because they are compelled. If he doesn't follow his compulsion, I think he'll break mentally (as if he weren't already damaged). You just watch him go on a victory tour now...and no hospitalization!!!!! pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: paroper
Date: 06-13-2005, 07:13 PM (30 of 36)
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I was watching one of the news networks for the verdict. When the jury came in and through the reading of the verdict, there was no eye contact between the jury and him. Usually there is...that makes me feel that the jury wasn't just real comfortable with the verdict. Usually if there is a not guilty verdict, the jury is relaxed and amiable toward the defendant. Also, the jury took a very long time to arrive at an innocent verdict; they even sent out for clarification on a point and before the court could answer, they sent word that the answer was no longer necessary.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: DragonLady
Date: 06-13-2005, 08:32 PM (31 of 36)
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...that makes me feel that the jury wasn't just real comfortable with the verdict. Usually if there is a not guilty verdict, the jury is relaxed and amiable toward the defendant. I don't have tv here, so I can't see any of the coverage. But my guess is that like me they couldn't get past reasonable doubt. He's probably guilty; but you can't send a man to prison for 20 years for probably. I think the jurors all figured they wouldn't be able to live with themselves if they were always wondering if maybe they made a mistake. If they feel that way, you can't blame 'em for letting him go. If he does do it again (God forbid!) let's hope the prosecutors can put together a better case with people who are more credible and haven't shown themselves so willing to lie and commit fraud. "No more twist! No more twist!"
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User: DragonLady
Member since: 11-10-2004 Total posts: 152
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From: Catalina
Date: 06-14-2005, 07:20 AM (32 of 36)
| I also think the jury had mixed feelings, but its nice to know that they did their jobs based on the evidence, which wasn't there to convict him. If I was on trial I wouldn't want to be convicted on " Well I feel or think shes quilty" I didn't believe the mother or the boy, and I think its awful that Jackson had to go through all this with the lack of evidence they had. |
User: Catalina
Member since: 01-06-2005 Total posts: 119 |
From: DorothyL
Date: 06-14-2005, 07:44 AM (33 of 36)
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The question is -- Now that he is not guilty, how much money would it take to get you to let your kids spend the night at his house? Dorothy |
User: DorothyL
Member since: 12-09-2002 Total posts: 3883 |
From: paroper
Date: 06-14-2005, 07:50 AM (34 of 36)
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Do you supose his private parties are over?
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: DragonLady
Date: 06-14-2005, 03:43 PM (35 of 36)
If he really did it, he will do it again.  People who prefer children as sexual partners don't "change" any more than gays or straights do. "No more twist! No more twist!"
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User: DragonLady
Member since: 11-10-2004 Total posts: 152
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From: wild800
Date: 06-16-2005, 04:01 PM (36 of 36)
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If he really did it, he will do it again. People who prefer children as sexual partners don't "change" any more than gays or straights do. Unfortunately you are correct. It is really too bad that he was able to purchase some children of his own, and nothing's being done to protect them. While I understand the jury verdict, I am sickened that another pedophile will go unpunished. |
User: wild800
Member since: 10-27-2004 Total posts: 48 
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