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From: Longblades
Date: 08-17-2005, 11:22 AM (1 of 29)
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I started sewing as a tall, skinny teenager back in the late 1960's when (alas) I measured a pattern size ten, except for my height. The odd time something ready-made in a store fit I also bought a size ten. So how is that I now measure a pattern size 14 but I often buy a size 8 in the stores? Are you the same way? What happened to standardized sizing? |
User: Longblades
Member since: 07-14-2005 Total posts: 182 |
From: LeapFrog Libby
Date: 08-17-2005, 11:43 AM (2 of 29)
Back in the late 40's -- early 50's when I started sewing in High School a size 12 pattern fit measurements of b-34; w-24; and h-36...I'd hate to tell you what size that is today.. 
Sew With Love
Libby |
User: LeapFrog Libby
Member since: 05-01-2002 Total posts: 2022 
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From: bridesmom
Date: 08-17-2005, 12:21 PM (3 of 29)
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I know what you mean. I was so happy to lose 20 lbs last year and get 2 sizes smaller, but when I went to sew myself something I was sewing a size 16. And its even different between countries. I am a whole size smaller in US sizes compared to Canadian. Don't even get me started with European!
Laura
Tickled pink with my Innovis 4000D |
User: bridesmom
Member since: 01-21-2004 Total posts: 2026 |
From: Magot
Date: 08-17-2005, 02:00 PM (4 of 29)
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Libby, on my patterns in the UK that is still a size 12. Weren't the standard sizes decided in the 1950's sometime and they have since discovered that womens shapes are not really like that - especially as so many of us do not wear corsets any more...I remember reading a thread here somewhere about how there is a pattern company that is making patterns for the shape of the modern woman. I find the ridiculous amount of ease there are in some garments makes them impossible to wear. My daughter is a size 8-10 and when trying some clothes on in that size in Topshop they fell off her body, literally, left her standing in her nuddy pants as they say. I am a standard UK 14 (except for my waist which they tell me is an 18 - rubbish!) However my UK size 12 jeans , which fit well, can be pulled off without undoing them - daft or what! I would much rather be able to go to something on a clothes rack that I know is my size and put it on than spend I don't know how long sending people back to get 'a size smaller' because people's vanity must be pandered to. Wear clothes that fit you, regardless of what they say inside - try to squeeze into something smaller and you just end up looking squeezed and larger! I think I end up a daft size in the US as well, Bridesmom. I remember a friend of mine from the states ( a couple of sizes larger than I) insisting she was a 12 and I was an 8, I fell about until I realised that we are having a typical difference in scale. Do you suppose this is related to the different sizes of pints that we both have and the sqeezing of a quart into a pint pot 
love and kisses, Jan
Guts-R-Us Cells a Speciality DNA to order. |
User: Magot
Member since: 12-22-2002 Total posts: 3626 
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From: plrlegal
Date: 08-17-2005, 02:49 PM (5 of 29)
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The worst thing for me has been I'm one size on the bottom and another size on the top until a month ago. Hopefully, now I'm the same size all over, at last. If they made patterns for different cup sizes instead of a standard B cup, making a bust adjustment would be a heck of a lot easier. Has anyone ever tried to adjust a pattern designed for a standard B cup bust to a DD? By the time you make that much of an adjustment for the top, you end up making adjustments for the entire pattern, which when sewn looks somewhat askew, to say the least. Even my plastic surgeon told me that he has no idea how they came up with using a standard B cup as a model for women's clothing designs. He says that the majority of women range from an average C to a D. He feels that a B cup is almost being flatchested. Patsy Patsy
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User: plrlegal
Member since: 05-19-2001 Total posts: 318 |
From: SummersEchos
Date: 08-17-2005, 03:11 PM (6 of 29)
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Patsy, Yes I know what you mean. It is not me who is so well endowed. It is my MD who is also very tiny. Skirts she can buy and find some to fit her, slacks are a hit or miss. Tops well that is a whole different aspect. She can fit into a DDD, but a little larger fits better. When in high school I would have her bra's made for her but a lady who does all special needs bras. She stood up to one of her best friends wedding. All the other girls were tall and willowly (sp)? They picked out dresses that looked beautiful on them, not on DD. They had spag. straps, and a low cut front. The only good thing was they were black satin with pick trim. So she got a dress to match and we then went shopping to find black satin to match and I redid the whole dress. We changed the top from the little low cut, spag. straps, to a more stylish strap with just a curve for the cleavage. Needless to say DD has many problems fitting dresses, or buying tops that are stylish to her age, she is only 26. Patterns are no where near the sizes in RTW. Vanity in the industry I think has made everyone askew. Summer
FREE FALLIN |
User: SummersEchos
Member since: 09-29-2004 Total posts: 884 |
From: blackie
Date: 08-17-2005, 03:18 PM (7 of 29)
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If they made patterns for different cup sizes instead of a standard B cup, making a bust adjustment would be a heck of a lot easier. Has anyone ever tried to adjust a pattern designed for a standard B cup bust to a DD? By the time you make that much of an adjustment for the top, you end up making adjustments for the entire pattern, which when sewn looks somewhat askew, to say the least. Patsy I'm one size on the bottom and another on the top, too. I'm a short-waisted 38 F on top which is ROUGHLY a size 14 in RTW - altho' usually the 14 doesn't quite accommodate "the twins" but merely fits "as best as I can find in RTW" - and I am a RTW 10/12 below. And of course I have all the armpit / neckline problems that go with being full-busted. I really apprecited the petiteplus guidelines to adjusting patterns for a full bust... I have been experimenting on thrift store t-shirts with some success. It is amazing to have a well-fitted - as opposed to TIGHT - t shirt! see the mundane life of a housewife.
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User: blackie
Member since: 03-31-2004 Total posts: 594 |
From: Sewhappie
Date: 08-17-2005, 06:40 PM (8 of 29)
| They recently had a fashion designer on either Good Morning America or The Today show talking about how the Standards Sizing has changed in just the past 15-20 yrs for fashion. In the 60's a size 10 was close to a "true" size 10, but every 4-5 years they have added a "few" inches to the bust/waist/hips because of our growing figures, but still label them as 10's!!!! |
User: Sewhappie
Member since: 10-27-2001 Total posts: 1427 |
From: paroper
Date: 08-18-2005, 09:21 AM (9 of 29)
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The patterns pre-mid 60's were even smaller than today! So were the majority of the people. It used to be hard to find a woman's size 9 shoe in the stores. Size 10's were expensive and almost non-existant. By the 1960's the woman's shape was beginning to change. Food additives, activities, genes, diet, women stopped using girldles and waste cinchers too...who knows the real reasons (besides the change of underwear) but things changed and people and feet got bigger all over and taller. In the mid-late 60's the major pattern companies decided to make significant changes and they came up with "New Sizing" to fit the new figure shapes...larger all over, much more waist than before. The patterns through the late sixties were labeled as "new sizing as the switch began. The RTW industry also fell into line as standardized sizing became the norm. What happened in RTW was that (everyone knows) designer lined clothes always fitted larger....that has always been a given...but as time went on, department stores and others started adding their own designer lines with larger fit...and still the upper crust stores enlarged to keep ahead of the curve. Now, even discount stores have special designer lines...and that has caused the gulf to widen even more. It is time for a new alignment of pattern sizes which is WAY OFF now.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: plrlegal
Date: 08-18-2005, 12:14 PM (10 of 29)
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It seems to me that the RTW industry just kept making the same size clothes but putting smaller and smaller size tags in them to appeal to the vanity of women about what size they wear. When I go shopping, I've noticed that the sizes of 12-14 and 16-18 seem to be the sizes that are the hardest to find. I see a lot of the 6-8-10 on the racks but maybe that is due to the types of clothing I'm looking for. A sales lady in Foley's told me one time that sizes 12-14 seem to be the average size for most women today. That was just her opinion I'm assuming based on what she sees go off the racks in the department she works in. Patsy Patsy
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User: plrlegal
Member since: 05-19-2001 Total posts: 318 |
From: paroper
Date: 08-18-2005, 01:58 PM (11 of 29)
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Of all the sizes and women I have sewn for, I agree, after the age of about 22, 12-14 seems to be the mid-range size for woman. It also seems to me that at least until recently (I haven't sewn any 12-14's recently), size 14 pattern size seems to be closest to the RTW size 14 of any pattern size to any other pattern...not that it is perfect, just closer.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: LadySloPokes
Date: 08-29-2005, 10:53 AM (12 of 29)
A couple of thoughts here: first off, I have noticed a marked increase in the reduced sizes of many RTW clothes in the past 10 years or so. Depending on the style and fabrics used, many of the items that are made overseas for US companies seem to be smaller than the "size" on the label. My belief is that the overseas factories make them smaller based on what the "recommended" sizing is in that particular country. An overseas size 10 (what I would usually buy) would be much too tight in the waist and hips for me. A size 12 would be better in those areas, but much too big in the bust and sleeves. (big eye roll!). Another complication for me is my height-I'm only 5' 2" on a good day  and very short waisted.Now, I recently read somewhere (don't ask me where cuz I can't remember!) that pattern sizes don't match up with RTW sizes. In fact, the author said that if you generally are a size 12 RTW, you will probably be a size 16 in pattern size. I did a comparision of this over the weekend, and much to my great disappointment--she was right!!  I'm having to make myself an outfit for a business trip next month, and the patterns I looked at all stated that my measurements fall under the bigger column...if I fudge a bit I can cut it at the size 14 lines!  Well, I'm gonna be a good girl and follow the directions...  I'm through with my soap box now... 
Cookie
LadySlo...yes am I, but hey, I'm gettin' there! Are you sure it's supposed to look like this?! Proud owner of Singer Quantum Decor 7322 & Singer Quantum Futura CE 200.. "A balanced diet is having chocolate in both hands!" |
User: LadySloPokes
Member since: 08-15-2005 Total posts: 198 
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From: paroper
Date: 08-29-2005, 01:20 PM (13 of 29)
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The pattern sizes matched the RTW sizes when they were revamped in the 1960's. Before the "new sizing of the 1960's", the patterns were much smaller. Our physical sizes and expectations have changed as the RTW sizing has gotten more generous! The thing you have to remember when buying patterns is that the only person who will even notice the size of the pattern you buy/make will be you and the person who makes the pattern (if someone else makes it). No one else will care about the sizing of the pattern. In addition, if you make a pattern that is too small, they will notice that the dress is too tight from now on so it is much better to purchase a pattern and size according to the way it will fit, not by the size on the pattern. pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: blackie
Date: 08-29-2005, 01:32 PM (14 of 29)
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The thing you have to remember when buying patterns is that the only person who will even notice the size of the pattern you buy/make will be you and the person who makes the pattern (if someone else makes it). No one else will care about the sizing of the pattern. In addition, if you make a pattern that is too small, they will notice that the dress is too tight from now on so it is much better to purchase a pattern and size according to the way it will fit, not by the size on the pattern. Thank you! My thoughts exactly. Why the obsession on numbers - 'oh my gosh, I am not a size 14!!". Conversely, I know women who like clothes that have sizes that run big so they can convince themselves they're a size X or whatever. It is all fooling oneself. I know how fat my arse is, no matter what "number" I can claim. see the mundane life of a housewife.
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User: blackie
Member since: 03-31-2004 Total posts: 594 |
From: paroper
Date: 08-29-2005, 01:47 PM (15 of 29)
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At 55 my sister went to the grave swearing she still wore the size 7 she wore in high school. She was AT LEAST a size 20! She'd go to places where they sold samples buy them and want alterations...I didn't do it!
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: DorothyL
Date: 08-29-2005, 01:50 PM (16 of 29)
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Isn't that why it is called vanity sizing? Dorothy |
User: DorothyL
Member since: 12-09-2002 Total posts: 3883 |
From: mommydionne
Date: 08-30-2005, 05:39 PM (17 of 29)
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yep, vanity sizing it is, and as one on the smaller end of the scale it's not so great either, I just bought a pair of jeans size 0!!!! Seriously this is getting ridiculous! I was a 5 in high school 20 years ago and am not smaller that's for sure, I wear a vogue pattern 8 and a simplicity 6, does these numbers make sense? BTW Silhouette patterns makes patterns with B C and D cup sizing (but not A  ) guess one is not supposed to get a smaller bust over time
Jeanette
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User: mommydionne
Member since: 01-08-2004 Total posts: 838 
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From: paroper
Date: 08-30-2005, 05:45 PM (18 of 29)
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My daughters, now 18 and 21 are both size A and one of them has a kid! They are so hard to fit!!!
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: Magot
Date: 08-31-2005, 08:03 AM (19 of 29)
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a friend of mine described her lack of bust as " a fried egg on a nail"
love and kisses, Jan
Guts-R-Us Cells a Speciality DNA to order. |
User: Magot
Member since: 12-22-2002 Total posts: 3626
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From: Longblades
Date: 08-31-2005, 10:45 AM (20 of 29)
| My neice is 5'11" and wears a size 2. When the hip hugger style of pants and the bare belly tops that all the young girls wear these days go out of style she will have to learn to sew. |
User: Longblades
Member since: 07-14-2005 Total posts: 182 |
From: mommydionne
Date: 08-31-2005, 04:56 PM (21 of 29)
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Magot too funny!! Jeanette
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User: mommydionne
Member since: 01-08-2004 Total posts: 838
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From: Jayde877
Date: 09-06-2005, 12:06 PM (22 of 29)
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I have found that pattern sizes are way off. On the patterns I have bought, children's and unisex scrubs, I have had to cut smaller than the size I expected. I sew scrubs for my husband and going by sizes small medium large 1x etc. He usually buys a 1x t-shirt which is baggy on him, but that's how he wears his clothes. So I cut and sew the scrubs at a 1x, and what do I get? A pair of pants that would fit me and him both at the same time, and a top that is just WAY too big. Same thing for children's. Now the sizing on this has a little to do with my daughter being so tall and skinny. I did a test of the pattern before I cut into the actual material and found that the outfit was entirely to wide, but the jacket length was perfect and the pants were too short. So I had to cut the pattern for the actual outfit at a width of 4 and length of 6 and even add a few inches onto the pant length for it to fit her. (Pictures can be seen if interested at http://www.geocities.com/jayde778/pageant.html ) The end result was gorgeous but it was such a pain to get it the right size. Now I am working on the flower girl and train bearer dresses for my friend's wedding and came across the same dilema. Well, enough of that, I could go on and on. Here's to all of us who love to sew and wishes that we will all be able to get the right size out of a pattern. Charity |
User: Jayde877
Member since: 07-27-2005 Total posts: 106 
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From: Teri
Date: 09-14-2005, 08:27 PM (23 of 29)
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Why the obsession on numbers - 'oh my gosh, I am not a size 14!!". I know how fat my arse is, no matter what "number" I can claim. ROTFL - Thanks for the laugh, today is was shopping at the local thrift store and ran into a very petite friend, I found some great looking pedal pushers but the size was cut out. She couldn't understand for the life of her why someone would do that. It's also funny that Chico's has it's own sizing, I swear many of my customers buy Chico's so they can wear a size 2. The good news is the pedal pushers fit, so I guess they're a size 14  (Ok maybe a 16)
Teri
"Where are we going, and why am I in this basket?" |
User: Teri
Member since: 09-14-2005 Total posts: 66 
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From: toadusew
Date: 09-14-2005, 08:57 PM (24 of 29)
I'm spending more time sewing for my grandchildren than myself these days so I can't comment on adult pattern sizes. (I have used the Bonfit system previously in order to draft my own patterns and that works best for me.) However, I am making a size one (toddler size) sundress for my daughter's unborn daughter and it looks like it might fit a 3 year old! I have made some size one patterns from a vintage pattern that a friend had given me and they are smaller than the current one. What are pattern makers thinking these days?! 
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User: toadusew
Member since: 01-08-2005 Total posts: 369 |
From: paroper
Date: 09-14-2005, 09:28 PM (25 of 29)
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I don't know about those infant sizes....you can't begin to depend on them! I've made infant clothing that fit a two year old but once in a while you get a good dress and bloomer pattern. If you do, hang on to it. Several years ago I had a great pattern that had all kinds of different collars and sleeves, aprons to add, etc...was really cool but haven't seen one since my 18 yr old was an infant and I somehow lost mine. It was not a major brand pattern but I absolutely loved it!!!
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: bridesmom
Date: 09-15-2005, 12:45 AM (26 of 29)
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Talking about people cutting tags out of clothing, my DH does that as soon as he gets something new, then tosses it before I can get hold of it, so 1 - I can't return it if he decides he doesn't like it and 2 - half the time I have no idea what its made of or how to wash it.
Laura
Tickled pink with my Innovis 4000D |
User: bridesmom
Member since: 01-21-2004 Total posts: 2026 |
From: SummersEchos
Date: 09-15-2005, 01:29 AM (27 of 29)
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Vanity is such a state of mind. If you feel like a million bucks then you show it. I have gone from 220 to 118, all in a month! I felt good at 140 - 150 and yes I walked the walk and talked the talk. People would stop and look at me, but I was the same person no matter what my size. When I would make my clothes people would ask what size are you in now? I would say RTW or homemade? It was always different, and of course RTW was always smaller. Folks who do not sew always think they should be in the same size as RTW, but surprise it isn't so. The few times I have made something for others I have had the back of JC Penney's where they give the mesurements to a size so and so. Then I show them what the pattern company says, and tell them it is our little secret. Why are we all stuck on ourself and our size?
Summer
FREE FALLIN |
User: SummersEchos
Member since: 09-29-2004 Total posts: 884 |
From: Marlyn
Date: 09-25-2005, 08:59 AM (28 of 29)
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Help! Can someone please explain to me what your acronym of "RTW" means. I have never heard this one before. As to the sizing on children's patterns. I definitely agree they do turn out much larger than what the child normally wears. Therefore, I tend to make one pattern size smaller for my youngest granddaughter. I also had this problem with the eldest, but now that she has grown so much I find I need to make larger sizes than what she wears off the rack, or end up making some smaller .... all depends on the pattern maker. I find Butterick fits the closest to what they say the size will be. 
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User: Marlyn
Member since: 06-11-2004 Total posts: 37 
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From: DorothyL
Date: 09-25-2005, 09:08 AM (29 of 29)
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RTW means ready to wear. Store bought. Dorothy |
User: DorothyL
Member since: 12-09-2002 Total posts: 3883 |
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