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From: bethy
Date: 12-31-2005, 12:03 AM (1 of 14)
Hi, I just joined this group to ask the opinion of anyone who might have one in this area. I am going to buy a new sewing machine! Hooray! I am currently using one I have had for nine years that only does a straight and a zigzag stitch -I use it with my serger and I sew at least three days a week; mostly garments, dancewear for my daughters, and some home decor/quilting. I am also very interested in heirloom sewing. My machine was a gift, so this is the first time I am choosing one myself. So anyway, after trying many makes and models and endless internet research, I have narrowed it down to two, which of course are brushing their heads on the ceiling of my budget. The Viking Platinum 750 and the Bernina activa 230PE. I can get both for the exact same price ($1100) right now. I find them to have the best stitch quality of any in my price range. I am VERY impressed with the Viking's satin stitch and buttonholes. I also prefer the computer interface format and the general operation of the machine. The Viking also allows you to flip your stitches over from side to side or upside down, which the Bernina doesn't. However, the Bernina offers 204 stitches (Viking has 168), some of which are particularily endearing and don't have a similar on the Viking; tulips, circular scrolls, two alphabets (though they are only uppercase; Viking has one alphabet style but it is in upper and lower case). I tried talking the store owner into giving me the Bernina activa 240 (it has a mirror image feature and 256 stitches!)for $1100 instead of the $1400 he is asking, but since both are already at a sale price, he wouldn't go for it. The Viking is also on a huge sale, and costs more than the Bernina when they are both at their normal price. The Bernina also has a little "sewing table" surface that detatches for free-arm sewing; I thought at first that it would be awkward, but was pleasantly surprised otherwise. Both machines are BEAUTIFUL!!! I am aware that I am comparing oranges to oranges here, as each one is from a reputable manufacturer and delivers a superb product. I have before me samples of stitching from each (same fabric, same thread) and they are almost indistinguishable. there are slight differences in certain stitches, but neither one could be pointed out as being inferior - they consistently lay out perfect stitch after perfect stitch. Maybe I am just being greedy here, but I prefer to think of myself as thorough. Anyway, the price on the Viking goes up again on New Year's day, so I am hoping for advice and viewpoints as soon as possible. There isn't a wrong choice between these machines, and I know I am creating my own agony  , but I need all the input I can get!!! Thanks so much, Bethy
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User: bethy
Member since: 12-30-2005 Total posts: 9 |
From: paroper
Date: 12-31-2005, 03:32 AM (2 of 14)
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That Bernina machine is pretty popular among Bernina users. Many people who have TOL machines purchase it for quilting classes and the like because of its physical weight and size. It is a little easier to transport. It also allows for the new punch foot (I think that is what it is called). Many people have purchased it because they want to use that foot and it can't be used on all the machines. I had always (for 25 years) wanted a Viking. When I sat down and made the first few stitches on the Bernina I was in love with the straight smooth stitches. I have an old (purchased 1992) TOL Bernina that I used when I left work. I sewed professionally for about 7 years. It was 7 days of the week, sometimes around the clock. I never had to take my 1530 in for anything...not even an adjustment. I cleaned it as best I could myself and (I know this is not a good thing) I didn't have it professionally cleaned for 13 years. It sewed like a champ and is still my favorite machine. I can get parts and feet for it with no problem whatsoever and it has maintained over 1/3 the price I paid for it, even with all the hours I have on it. I really like the rotary hook system on the Bernina machines. If you think that the machines are pretty much equal (and they may well be)...they are certainly very good machines. I think I would purchase the dealer. Have you checked into what the dealer(s) will offer you in terms of service? I have never been one to make it a secret that I am negociating two machines. Sometimes it plays in your favor. I'd compare service of the dealer, terms of the warrenty, etc. I would certainly take into consideration how much time you have to make your decision, but I wouldn't take the retail price into consideration when making my final decision about which machine if they both fall into a price range I can afford. You'll probably use this machine for a number of years and I think that if they are both affordable, you need to look and the machines and dealer, proximity of the dealership and convience for service, etc and make the decision based on that within the time that you can get the best pricing. Good Luck! Whichever machine you choose, I don't think you could go wrong here. pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: bethy
Date: 12-31-2005, 08:01 AM (3 of 14)
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dear Paroper, thanks so much for responding. You make a good point about buying the dealer. Fortunately, both dealers have been wonderful. Warrantees are about the same and both offer lessons on their machines. Both have a good network of classes and resources, too. I have noticed that the types of classes offered by the Viking group are more in my interest. I have been totally up front with both dealers about my dual interest, of course. As of this morning (nothing is final until tonight), I am leaning toward the Viking because the upgrade to the next machine offers more than the upgrade to the next Bernina, should I decide to do so. I have a feeling that when I go in for an embroidery machine in a few years that I will again be faced with a hard choice between Viking and Bernina (poor me!  ). The Viking's feature of being able to flip designs left to right and top to bottom makes its stitches more versatile and allows me more creativity. I have been trying to imagine how things would go if I owned both machines right now -which one would I use more? One minute I think the Viking, and the next I wonder if the allure of the Bernina will always be whispering to me over the years...Thanks again Pam, Bethy |
User: bethy
Member since: 12-30-2005 Total posts: 9 |
From: paroper
Date: 12-31-2005, 09:16 AM (4 of 14)
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OK...since the dealers are good, why not "buy" for the top of the line? See if either machine uses the same feet in that model as the top of the line AND see which top of line you like. If you like the Bernie better and the feet are the same, you may be aquiring things that you like toward the TOL later. If the feet don't work on either or if you find the feet exchangable on one all the way to the top, but not on the one you like, that isn't necessarily a bad thing BUT if you find that they are, you could be aquiring things that you can use later should you decide to trade up. One interesting thing about the two machines is the basic philosophy of the company. The Husky machine is owned by a large Corporation who owns a lot of different things..they make chain saws, Pfaff, just bought Singer...and the list goes on. Bernina is the largest family owned sewing machine company in the world (just a piece of trivia). Until 1993 the main focus of the Bernina Co was in sewing machines for clothing and quilting. They didn't enter the embroidery market until fall, 1993. The matriarch of the family thought embroidery to be a "passing fancy". As matriarch, she had sole word about how the machines would be made. Bernina is currently known for keeping parts available for their machines for at least 20 years. Although, as I've already said, I don't know that you'd ever have much problem with your sewing machine. I don't know about the policies of Viking. pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: plrlegal
Date: 12-31-2005, 03:33 PM (5 of 14)
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The reality is Pam that VSM Holdings now owns and manufacturers Pfaff, Viking and Singer, so in the coming years, you are going to see that the TOLS of all 3 of these machines are going to resemble one another except for the fact that the German industrial company that still owns the patent on the Pfaff IDF won't release it for any other machines. So, apparently, Pfaff is still the only machine on the market that has the really true built in integrated dual feed foot. I know that Janome or someone has come out with one that resembles the Pfaff IDF but I've heard that it is not that good yet. Patsy Patsy
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User: plrlegal
Member since: 05-19-2001 Total posts: 318 |
From: paroper
Date: 12-31-2005, 09:46 PM (6 of 14)
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Honestly, I don't know what the differences will mean in the future. It just represents a difference in philosophy right now. Who knows what companies will devour each other in the future or what the face of sewing will look like. Since at this time Bernina is family owned, it would seem that they would be less likely for a hostile take over....I think you have to be public to be in that situation but who knows if they would ever sell. Right now the trend is away from garment sewing and toward embroidery, and quilting. I am amazed at the number of quilters who do not sew garments nor would they think of trying to learn (right now).
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: bethy
Date: 01-01-2006, 05:07 PM (7 of 14)
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Dear Pam and Patsy, I finally made my decision. What a great way to start the new year!  I had decided to go with the Viking because it has more features for the money, and on paper appeared to have many more options available for trade-up than the Bernina. So I went into the Bernina dealer and let them know that is what I was going to do, BUT that I love Berninas so much I wanted to give them (and myself) the opportunity to convince me why it would be better to buy a Bernina in terms of the future. She showed me the models I would be able to move up to, along with features, etc. She wasn't able to give me any more info than I had already found in the brochures and on the internet, though. Sadly, the representative I spoke with this time was nothing like the other ladies I had dealt with there. While they had good things to say about each machine that came up in conversation and focused on the virtues of the magnificent Bernina, she spent less time espousing the merits of Bernina than she did ripping the Viking to shreds.  She kept telling me that the Husquvarna Viking company is at "the bottom of the heap" and that they have a terrible reputation as sewing machine manufacturers. It was also unnecessary for her to tell me that she would never buy a Viking in a million years and that it has terrible resale value, isn't built to last, etc. I listened patiently, but I must say that I felt she was being both underhanded and insulting. All my research has shown that Husquvarna Viking company builds some of the finest small machines in the world, and that there reputation is excellent. And let us not forget that I did a fair and square stitch-off between the two machines. I had been extremely thorough in my research, and I felt she was insinuating that I knew nothing about sewing machines and was making a stupid decision out of ignorance. I had brought in my stitch samples from both machines, and even she could find nothing to say about the comparison between their stitches, and I had also had with me my brocures and machine specifications lists comparing the two machines, including the possible trade-up options, so she could see where I was coming from. She just kept repeating that Vikings are one of the most inferior machines you can buy. In a way it made it easier for me to disengage myself from the relationship I was building with the other representatives in the store, so I guess that is a positive. Honestly though, I went in there hoping for a solid reason to choose Bernina because I have always wanted one. Once I was a little turned off by the saleslady, it was much easier for me to make my decision based on logic and what my needs are rather than on prestige. I am a rather practical girl in the end.  I do hope that someday I will be very well off and can then afford several machines, in which case I will certainly own at least one Bernina as well . So, at the end of my little saga here, I went over to the Viking dealer and the representative there showed me what I could look forward to as I move up. (she is an avid sewer and owns one of Viking's top of the line embroidery-sewing combo machines, and still has a bernina she bought years ago). And so, at long last, I am the proud owner of a Husqvarna Viking Platinum 750. (Well, I put a down payment on it and will pick it up in a week and a half, when the paycheck comes in!) I have been walking on clouds ever since. Thanks again for the good advice.Bethy
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User: bethy
Member since: 12-30-2005 Total posts: 9 |
From: debsews
Date: 01-01-2006, 07:04 PM (8 of 14)
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Congrats on your new purchase. I own Vikings and don't know much about anything else. I'm very interested in hearing how well you like the 750. I am wanting to buy an embroidery machine but haven't done enough research right now about what to buy. I really can't afford it so I will wait to do the research when i have the money available. I'm glad you made your decision with your head and not your heart. That always gets me in trouble when I get emotional about a purchase. Good for you that you didn't let some sales person intimidate you. If she had to resort to that behavior I doubt she knew much about her product anyway. Let us know all about it when you get it home. |
User: debsews
Member since: 09-16-2005 Total posts: 254 |
From: paroper
Date: 01-01-2006, 07:15 PM (9 of 14)
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Congratulations. People who are not prepared to sell..rip...I'm proud of you for making a stand. I would have left that store pretty hot (and without a machine too)!!! I wish you many long happy hours on your Viking!!!! There was a time when that was the only machine I dreamed of having!! I hope it serves you very well! You might want to take the time to run a copy of your note to us and send it to the Bernina dealership though. They need to know that they have a salesperson who needs to change her tactics! The salesperson needs to do her homework!!!!
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: paroper
Date: 01-01-2006, 07:18 PM (10 of 14)
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By the way, I'd hardly call that machine the bottom of the heap!!!! Shame on her!!!
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: AndreaSews
Date: 01-01-2006, 07:37 PM (11 of 14)
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Bethy, it was fun to read this thread and watch the story unfold. It was a little like wondering, "Is it going to be a boy or a girl??" I am glad you are pleased with your purchase. Stick around.
Andrea
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User: AndreaSews
Member since: 02-18-2005 Total posts: 1007 
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From: plrlegal
Date: 01-01-2006, 08:54 PM (12 of 14)
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Congratulations Bethy!!! You'll love your new machine. I have a sister that lives in North Florida who has sewn for years. She owned the Viking Rose and after 15 years, traded up to the Platinum 750 and she's in love with it. She sews and embroiders for hours on end as she has a business and does bridal apparel (complete wedding parties) as well as scrubs on top of scrubs plus three grandchildren (2 girls and a boy) and two daughters that she sews for. As far as I know, she didn't have any problems at all with the Rose (which lasted her for about 15 years) and no problems with her new Platinum. The sales woman you spoke with must have been desparate for a sale but that certainly is not the way to get one, at least not from me and good for you for standing your ground with her. I've never sewn on a Bernina and I'm quite sure they are excellent machines, but so are the Pfaffs and Vikings. I don't think owners of Vivking and Pfaff have any more problems with their machines that the owners of Berninas do. The most important thing is to learn your particular machine, keep it cleaned and serviced; go with the manufacturer's instructions and you'll be trouble free, I'm sure. Patsy Patsy
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User: plrlegal
Member since: 05-19-2001 Total posts: 318 |
From: mommydionne
Date: 01-02-2006, 01:07 PM (13 of 14)
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Yippee!! a new machine for you! I'm sure you will be happy with your viking! I have a Bernina sewing machine and a Viking serger and both are fab!! There is a bit of snobbery with some of the Bernina Dealers but I just don't get it. Enjoy your sewing!!
Jeanette
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User: mommydionne
Member since: 01-08-2004 Total posts: 838 
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From: Tom Land
Date: 01-02-2006, 04:19 PM (14 of 14)
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Bethy, I so hated to read of your experience. It is sad that some dealers feel they must trash a competitor to sell their product. As a multi-line dealer and service tech for many years I have my personal preferences but they mean nothing if I can't justify them. Many years ago I heard a salesman whom I had great respect for make the statement "There are alot of good machines on the market but I think _______ is best. Let me show we why". He then proceeded to try to sell the machine based on it's merits. Never once down grading the brand mentioned by the customer. I have found this to be the best policy. My product should be able to stand up for itself. On the other hand don't blame the product for poor salesmaship. Just find a different dealer.
Have fun or don't do it, Tom
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User: Tom Land
Member since: 09-21-2005 Total posts: 514 |
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