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The Sew What’s New Archive
This archived content is from Mary Wilkins’ sewing and
quilting message board “Sew What’s New,” which was
retired in August 2007. It is being provided by
“Sew What’s Up,”
which serves as the new home for many members of “Sew What’s New.”
From: Karalynn904
Date: 03-10-2006, 01:46 AM (1 of 25)
Hello Everyone! I am 18 years old, and really into sewing and designing clothes. I make a lot of dresses and things from patterns. I have so many designs on paper that I would love to make...but I have no idea how to make patterns for them. I have been buying patterns and altering them the best I can, but it would be so much better if i could make them myself. I bought a patternmaking book online, and I really don't understand a word it says. I will be going to school in the fall for fashion design, but I would like to start learning how to make patterns now. Does anyone know of a website or an easy book that would teach me?? or would I be better off waiting until I start school? Thank you in advance 
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User: Karalynn904
Member since: 03-09-2006 Total posts: 11 
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From: paroper
Date: 03-10-2006, 06:53 AM (2 of 25)
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I took flat pattern making in school. Our book had a small sloper pattern in it that we traced and used to help design our clothing. The majority of the class was getting our personal slopers together. It was a great class and I learned a whole lot. Basically, if you want a seam you just slash the pattern, add a seam and go. There are we took a basic close fitted dress (with waistline, fitting darts, close fitting sleeves, made it into our slopers and from that we made dresses without waists, full skirted dresses, princess dresses, all kinds of sleeves. It is really a lot of fun and you'll truly enjoy it. It is all about putting things together, slashing and pivoting to remove darts, add things, increase fullness, etc. The methods you use determine smooth lines and gathering. I think I had more "ah hah" moments when we were taught about changing darts. At the time I went to school, darts were all over the place. Sometimes bust darts came down from the sleeves, sometimes from the upper hip toward the bust. It was amazing to me how a little dart could be a huge dart depending on where it was located, or you could remove the dart by pivoting the garment and putting in a seam. You'll also probably learn to do some designs and patterns by draping method. For me, after flat pattern, that was almost a natural thing and I think it was a little easier, but for the average person it is not terribly practical. I know that you are really anxious to learn, but when you get to college you'll learn that each professor has their techniques and although it is a very good idea to get a lot of viewpoints, you will be using the professor's techniques, whether you like them or not. If you establish habits now, you may have to relearn a few things. I had a professer in college that was reputed to be fantastic...the line to get into her class was incredible. Since it was my major, I could get into her classes without too much problem. I soon found that the techniques that were taught by my high school teacher put SOME of hers to shame. The HS teacher's work was cleaner and easier, not only to learn but to teach (and that was where I was going). It was a matter of comparing a PHd who taught a handful of experienced college majors and a high school teacher who taught thousands of bungling students from scratch. I still learned a whole lot in her classes and I'm glad I studied with her. There are many roads to get any place and there are times when her techniques have come in quite handy. pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: LeapFrog Libby
Date: 03-10-2006, 12:50 PM (3 of 25)
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My 2 cents worth-- I think sometime you learn (maybe absorb is a better word) what not to do from a teacher who is less than the best.. I know that has lasted me from Home Ec I in Jr High..The teacher we had was infected with severe tunnel vision.. I learned to look for more than one solution from her.. After class we (her students) would discuss how we knew a different way to do it from our mothers or other family members.. Therefore, I learned early on I guess , not to take her word as gospel for everything sewing. My Dad encouraged us to think for ourselves, but not to talk about that to our teachers. (kept us out of the principals office) LOL.. He was a very wise man.. Sew With Love
Libby |
User: LeapFrog Libby
Member since: 05-01-2002 Total posts: 2022 
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From: Sew-Enchanting
Date: 03-10-2006, 01:27 PM (4 of 25)
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If you are a person who doesn't mind "relearning" to meet a certain professors' demands, I'd say rip up an old pattern and play with it, cut it out with some muslin, and see what happens. If you hate the relearning process, maybe wait a few months until you are in college and see what they want from you. I agree with the other posters - different professors want different things. I was in apparel design...man, it seems like a million years ago!  But I had been sewing for a number of years and really hated being told to change the way I did things - I'd get downgraded even on how I chose to press something! Man, I hated that! But...if you don't mind that, or if you're willing to listen to what the profs have to say (I'll admit, I was very closed-minded and "know it all" back then!), you might have some fun playing with altering this summer. Even just a basic camisole block can be changed around to play with your own designs. Or a simple straight skirt. Or a plain blouse. Everyone starts with a basic pattern set and goes from there. Good luck! Kris
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User: Sew-Enchanting
Member since: 12-28-2005 Total posts: 53 
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From: Scratch 'N Sniff
Date: 03-10-2006, 05:42 PM (5 of 25)
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I'm taught myself to make patterns by 1) trial and error, 2) looking how other garments were made, 3) checking out patterns for tricky techniques. I probably learned the most from experimentation. When something doesn't hang right or fit right, you rip out the seams and try again. I didn't have the money to try everything in muslin first, but if you can afford it, it's the best way to go. That way you don't potentially waste lots of good material if you make a big mistake. I'd also suggest you try your hand at draping. I prefer it to drafting patterns, which can take a lot longer. That's my opinion anyway. Best of luck! ~debie
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User: Scratch 'N Sniff
Member since: 01-02-2003 Total posts: 46 |
From: Karalynn904
Date: 03-10-2006, 06:42 PM (6 of 25)
Thank you all for the advice...I really appreciate it 
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User: Karalynn904
Member since: 03-09-2006 Total posts: 11
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From: crazy4quilting
Date: 03-11-2006, 07:02 AM (7 of 25)
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Hi Kara Lynn, Try this website link for a quick how to on making patterns from scratch. It may help. http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/cl_shirts_blouses/article/0,2025,DIY_13734_2276805,00.html A Girl Can Never Have Too Much Fabric!
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User: crazy4quilting
Member since: 03-14-2002 Total posts: 51 
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From: quidscribis
Date: 03-11-2006, 08:44 PM (8 of 25)
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I'm making patterns completely from scratch. Patterns as y'all know of don't exist here, and the only pattern making book I found in English (there were plenty others in Sinhalese, but that doesn't work for me...) only works on average women with average busts, which lets me out immediately. I tried it, not realizing the limitation at first, and the shoulders and sleeves are completely off. I don't know enough about pattern making - yet - to fix this. There is a dressmaking institute, but again, it's in Sinhalese and it's not open to foreigners. I've even asked around among the people I know here, and none of them know how to make patterns. Actually, I've also learned that, with the very rare exception, almost none of the seamstresses and tailors in this country knows how to make patterns - they insist on an existing garment to copy from. There are no books of any kind other than that one that give instructions on how to do this. If any of you have any tips or resources that could help, I surely would appreciate them.
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User: quidscribis
Member since: 10-26-2005 Total posts: 16 
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From: paroper
Date: 03-11-2006, 11:31 PM (9 of 25)
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There are some good pattern making products out there where you can design and make your own by computer. Obviously you have access to a computer but is it possible to import things like software? Do you use Windows or some other operating system that we don't use? The pattern software that I've eyed for years is something called Living Soft. There are others. I don't mean to insult you or the country in which you are currently living, I just don't know much about the ability to get mail and other things to that country. I know that in some countries when the mail gets back logged, they just burn it and if you are lucky enough to get somthing, it can be months from the time it is mailed.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: quidscribis
Date: 03-12-2006, 04:39 AM (10 of 25)
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No insult taken, paroper. Not even close. I use Windows XP, and we mostly download software. I was a geek in my own right back in Canada, and then I married a computer programmer... Technology is no problem with us. Shipping software, however, is problematic at best, what with shipping costs, how long it takes, VAT and other taxes which will at least double or triple the cost of the software, the bribes you might have to pay, the possibility of never receiving it at all... Yep, there are problems. The most commonly used software here can be bought, 50 or so programs on a CD, all pirated, all "Usefull! Good programms!" (Bad speeling intended). But software for pattern making? I doubt there's a single person in the entire country, other than me, who has an interest in it.Living Soft pattern making program - their website is currently down. I found their program available at another site for sale, and it refers to the site that's down. I don't know how long it's been down or how long it will be down. Not a good sign. I appreciate the suggestion. I'll check again in a few days. I've looked online at other pattern making software, and invariably, it tends to be more expensive than I'm willing to pay or it's clunky and difficult to use. Ack. I'm a computer geek, so having a program do all that for me would be fine if I could find something that worked well and wasn't too expensive. And this is a far longer post than I had anticipated... |
User: quidscribis
Member since: 10-26-2005 Total posts: 16
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From: paroper
Date: 03-12-2006, 05:40 AM (11 of 25)
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Well, if I find another interesting software I'll have to try to remember to post. To me that looks like the best way for you to get what you need, providing that we can get something in a price you can want to pay. The living soft (fortunately) comes in modules so you can "fry" yourself gently instead of all at once. With us still able to get patterns for 1-2 dollars I have a hard time justifying the amount (although I have very good reasons for wanting it.) We in the USA somtimes forget how lucky we are to be able to get some of the things we take for granted.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: quidscribis
Date: 03-12-2006, 05:57 AM (12 of 25)
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It's because of the cost that I'm looking at learning pattern drafting by hand. A friend is (theoretically) sending me a book which has instructions for pattern drafting in it, but until I get it and try it out, I won't know how good it is. If it's good enough, then I'll be happy with that and simply do the drafting by hand. As it stands now, I started drafting my own patterns back in October. Unfortunately, I had a time deadline for an outfit I needed to wear, so I took some shortcuts, and while it turned out and I've received a lot of compliments on it, it isn't as good as it could be and I really want to redo a few things. I probably will eventually - when I'm done with the current fabric pile that's screaming to be sewn. I did a few off of existing garments, but most have been done through my own measurements and logic. I'd like to do better than I have. If I can get compliments on something that I think of as sorta half-botched, then I think I have enough talent to do way better. Anyway, that's that blurb. And yes, y'all in North America sometimes forget how much you have available. Like dill weed. And sambal oelik. And underwire bras above a 36C, and women's shoes in size 10, and red hair color that's lighter than deep auburn, and peaches and nectarines and English cucumbers and Romaine lettuce and decent cheese, and bookstores bigger than most department stores here, and more than 2 1/2 English channels, and well paved roads that are wider than 1 1/2 lanes, and... Yeah. We'll leave it at that. 
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User: quidscribis
Member since: 10-26-2005 Total posts: 16
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From: karen v
Date: 03-12-2006, 08:39 PM (13 of 25)
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Hi Laurie, Can you get a Burda World of Fashion magazine subscription? I pay 70$ US for it, but there are ~40 patterns in every issue. They publish in 80 countries and many many languages, too. They have 2 special plus size issues a year for a separate subscription. Also, there is Patternmaster Boutique Software from Wild Ginger. If you don't want to go "whole hog", you can try Click and Sew, which are compact versions like the Dress Shop modules. NAYY for either of these. Then there is a pretty simple drafting book by Karen Howland, but it may be out of print, called, "Cut to the fit". Could you go on the internet, pick something out and have a friend buy the pattern, (for $2) discard everything except the bare minimum of pattern pieces and mail them to you? I don't think I could live somewhere where I couldn't browse patterns, let alone make them...I really am a pattern addict. I have PMB and although I live in a metropolitan area I cannot ever get to the user's groups. The forum is SO GREAT--you can post pix of your sloper issues, works in progress, etc., and you will get lots of feedback from technical support, certified educators, and general users, too. It's a wonderful resource. If you are going to be in Sri Lanka for any length of time, it may be a really good investment for you. You can even make bras with their other program, "Curves" did I say NAYY!! Well, here are just a few ideas. I feel your pain! Karen V all art is lies that help us see the truth
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User: karen v
Member since: 03-12-2006 Total posts: 31 |
From: quidscribis
Date: 03-12-2006, 11:53 PM (14 of 25)
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Um, NAYY? What the heck? Thanks for the info on the Burda mag. I checked it out, and of course, I have questions. Like the patterns that come with the mag - are they in English? I ask because I found two free downloadable patterns on their site, all in German, which, while I understand bits and pieces, I'm not fluent in. Also, what types of patterns come with the mag? I'm a plus-sized woman, so two issues a year that satisfy that would not be enough to convince me to get the mag. How thick is the mag and in what format do the patterns arrive? I have visions of a magazine that's two feet thick due to all the patterns... Plus they list the sizes, but don't offer a sizing chart anywhere... On the other hand, I noticed they have another magazine for plus sized women, but then I see no information about how often it comes out and how to subscribe. Are they trying to make this as difficult as possible? Wild Ginger. I've come across their software before, but I don't know anyone who's actually used it. Is it any good? Clunky interface? Intuitive to use? Is there enough variation within the program that you can get any style you want? Yep, I need a long-term solution. I anticipate I'll be here for 30-60 years, but since I don't really know how old I'll be when I die, it's just an estimate. That's why I've been looking at learning pattern drafting - then I can make anything I want anytime I want. Thanks for your comments.
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User: quidscribis
Member since: 10-26-2005 Total posts: 16
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From: paroper
Date: 03-13-2006, 03:50 AM (15 of 25)
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Just curious, of all the countries in the world, what brought you there?
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: quidscribis
Date: 03-13-2006, 04:50 AM (16 of 25)
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Oh, it was a guy. *laughs* The short version of the story is that I met my husband online when I downloaded a program he wrote and had problems with it. Two months later, I left Canada, landed in Sri Lanka. An hour later, after going through immigration and customs, I met him in person for the first time. Eight hours later, we were married. The only reason it took that long was because we were waiting for the witnesses to show up. And now, almost three years later, neither of us is chopped up in the freezer or otherwise dead, and we're still happy together. And I live in a country without patterns. Or variety. Or snow or cold weather or dill weed or sambal oelik or big huge humungous bookstores or... But we have cheap fabric and monitor lizards (3) living on our roof and cows wander the streets like cheap whores, so really, it's a fair trade. 
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User: quidscribis
Member since: 10-26-2005 Total posts: 16
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From: paroper
Date: 03-13-2006, 04:53 AM (17 of 25)
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Wow! I'm glad that he didn't turn out to be a mass murderer! Congratulations on your happiness.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: karen v
Date: 03-13-2006, 06:38 PM (18 of 25)
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Pam, I didn't have the nerve to ask that question! Laurie, The only reason I know this stuff is because I spend waaay too much time on the computer. NAYY is Not Affiliated Yada Yada-- so people know that you are not pushing your "own" product. Burda WOF--it is published in something like 25 languages. The English Version that I get here in Maryland, USA has 3 languages printed on the patterns--English, German and Russian. Gee, that makes sense here in North America, where English, Spanish and French are spoken, but I don't make these decisions. All the text and pattern instructions are in English (in mine). the pattern supplement is stapled into the center of the mag, it is about 8 large newsprint sheets, with patterns all over the place. you have to locate your pattern and trace off your size. (it's not too hard to locate your patterns) Then, you have to ADD SEAM ALLOWANCES. Now, a lot of Americans think this is a big deal, but for you, this is like a vacation! The reason they don't give seam allowances is because the patterns are way easier to alter w/o them. Also, the SA's take up a lot of room and like Ikea, why should they ship "air"? The "plus size" is a separate subscription -2 issues a year, only. Otherwise, there is a small plus collection in almost every issue. I love the plus patterns best of all, even though I am not really a plus size. They seem more generally modest and the skirts are longer (which I like). So in each issue you may get one or two jackets, 2 pairs of pants and a blouse and skirt. Or, some other variation of these items. Sometimes it is casual, sometimes dressier. (then there are the other 35 patterns for various other sizes) I don't know where you would get your subscription from, but I get mine from glpnews.com. I'm sure they could get you a measurement chart--but the hips go to 50", I think. I have PMB--they have been improving the program SO MUCH since I first bought it--it really has amazing potential- People say it has a "learning curve" and that is TRUE. I also think it is only as good as one's ability to make flattering choices for one's own body (much harder than it seems) You have to get used to the idea that you probably will not need more than 2 or 3 inches of ease in your patterns--that's the beauty of custom fit. The other thing I use it for is to take my custom fitted "shell" and use it to alter commercial patterns, because they never fit my weird body. Also, even if you learn pattern drafting, you can use the software to "spit" out basic patterns with variable amounts of ease as the basis for your drafts. Oh, the other thing (Gee, am I talking too much?) I am a Mac user, so I DID have to get used to the Windows format and buy a used Dell. The Pattern Editor feature is a CAD program that to me used to be like trying to draw with a brick. Now, it is a very elegant tool for designing your patterns--if I can use it anyone can. I'm working on a cross-front T shirt for my 13 y.o. daughter. You can use the software for anyone with a woman shaped body, read: bust differential. Well, I'll let you digest all that for now. Wild Ginger Software has free demos-- you can try them for yourself--also they have a free program called Wild Things--hats, bags, yoga mats, aprons, etc. You can have a guest appearance on the forum and see what is going on there. feel free to ask me any more karen v all art is lies that help us see the truth
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User: karen v
Member since: 03-12-2006 Total posts: 31 |
From: karen v
Date: 03-13-2006, 07:04 PM (19 of 25)
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Oh, hi, here I am again. PMB comes with a money-back guarantee--if you buy it from someone else like Nancy's Notions, I don't see how that could void the guarantee, even if NN won't take it back, WIld Ginger probably would. Somehow, I don't see you returning it ,though. NAYY Karen V all art is lies that help us see the truth
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User: karen v
Member since: 03-12-2006 Total posts: 31 |
From: quidscribis
Date: 03-13-2006, 10:29 PM (20 of 25)
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I don't mind questions, and I particularly like answering that one due to its jaw-dropping effects. And yeah, I'm also glad he turned out to not be a mass-murderer. Thing is, though, that he's so much of a geek that not only was his resume online, but when I did a Google search on him (way way before I ever considered coming out here) I found thousands of references to him on sites all over the place, and it was all consistent with his resume and good stuff about him. That, and he had three years of blog entries on his site for me to peruse and really get a feel for his personality. It's pretty difficult to fake three years of journal entries. Oh, and we both write science fiction. That, right there, was half the appeal, I'm sure. Thanks for the NAYY clarification. Makes sense. And thanks also for clarification on the Burda patterns. No, you're right, adding seam allowances is no biggie. Not when I've started creating my own patterns. Adding ease, on the other hand, I've had problems with. I checked out your link to glpnews.com and they have the Burda Plus and will ship - $30 for the two issues a year. That's pretty cheap in my estimation. I'll see what happens first with the patternmaking book my friend is supposed to mail on Wednesday - if pattern making with that is easy enough, then I won't need anything further. If it isn't, well, this looks like a reasonable option. Thanks. I've also done some further research on Wild Ginger. I'm taking them into consideration, but I really want to keep the costs down as much as I can. Thanks for sharing your experiences with them. And yep, I've downloaded their free program. I want to make a handbag anyway, so it seems to make sense. :p
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User: quidscribis
Member since: 10-26-2005 Total posts: 16
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From: Carol in ME
Date: 03-19-2006, 10:30 AM (21 of 25)
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My 2 cents worth-- My Dad encouraged us to think for ourselves, but not to talk about that to our teachers. (kept us out of the principals office) LOL.. He was a very wise man.. How much unpleasantness has been avoided by simply saying less than what you think? |
User: Carol in ME
Member since: 01-27-2003 Total posts: 105 |
From: afterhoursalter
Date: 03-25-2006, 07:33 AM (22 of 25)
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I sent this to quidscribis already but my husband said I should share it here to. There is a company that has created a very good system. It is based on proportions and works well. I am 5'2 and am tired of sleeves too long on patterns or shirts around the .... anyway my daughter is even shorter and very much rounder. By ordering this system I was able to use the miniture pattern and the technique and create great garments for her and myself and I never cut the original pattern. The website is http://designtofit.com/ . They have a dvd you can get if they do not have a class anywhere close by to see the method. I have been sewing since I was 8 and now 50, other than my sewing machine best investment I have made. I will bet between the grandchildren and my kids I spent about 100 on patterns just last year (even on sale). Check it out. Marji |
User: afterhoursalter
Member since: 03-25-2006 Total posts: 1 |
From: cat42
Date: 03-27-2006, 12:45 PM (23 of 25)
| I started making my own patterns when I was a teenager, by taking pieces from different commercial patterns and making them work together. for example, if I had a pattern I liked in general, but wanted a different neckline or different sleeve, I'd borrow the appropriate parts from another pattern and then figure out how to make it work. For sleeves, this meant not only borrowing the sleeve pattern but also the armhole that went with it. This method also required some other adjustments to get the right fit, and I learned a lot about how patterns work this way. Then as my body started to mature, I had to figure out how to mature my patterns too. This required learning basics like how to move darts, etc. I just dived in and practiced with muslin or scrap fabrics, and had many ah-ha's along the way. Halloween costumes were great inspiration. I went to the library to pour through art and movie books looking for ideas for period clothing. I was especially intrigued by photos and paintings of French actresses during the late 1800s. When I found something I liked, I looked through my patterns for something remotely close, and then proceeded to cut and experiment, first on paper, then on scrap fabric, before committing to the final fabric. But because it was just a costume, it didn't matter if I made some mistakes along the way. I think I learned more from this than anything else I have done. In the last 10 years, I soak up the 'Fitting' articles in Threads magazine; however, the last several issues have dropped that feature and I'm totally bummed! Right now I'm trying to make a pants pattern that fits my now rounded body....tricky! |
User: cat42
Member since: 03-27-2006 Total posts: 2 |
From: guppie
Date: 04-30-2006, 03:37 PM (24 of 25)
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Hmmm, I'm a bit slow on getting to all the forums lately, but just had to jump in here. Connie Amaden-Crawford (www.fashionpatterns.com) has written several books on pattern making, draping for design, sewing, etc. I have taken several classes from her and am currently working on some pattern designs for myself (rectangle is a shape, right?) I have only perused a few other pattern making books but always come back to Connie's (Patternmaking Made Easy). Never having done any drafting before, I find the book esp easy to follow and I UNDERSTAND what she is doing! I would highly recommend this book to anyone wanting to learn pattern drafting (NAYY)! Unfortunately I have never seen this particular book on that auction place--I bought mine (2005 edition) from her at a class, but I also have the previous edition (2004) that I did not use (and therefore forgot that I already had it  !) When I took the class my interest was very high in doing some pattern design, and still is. Now, just have to find the time to get it going!Since I found the 2004 edition in my bookshelf, I have decided to sell it. The difference in the 2 editions: the 2005 includes basic skirt blocks and the pants blocks--both of these are available separately. If anyone is interested I think you can contact me off line--I think I'm set-up for that. I've seen demonstrations of PMB and would really like to get it--it's on my 'wish' list! It's really great to be able to read about this one and the other CAD patterns--thanks so much! _____________ Cathy Cathy
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User: guppie
Member since: 12-29-2004 Total posts: 43 
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From: gmcsewer
Date: 05-08-2006, 09:55 AM (25 of 25)
| I understand your frustration at wanting to make your own designs. One thing I have learned is to make the pattern without the seam allowance. This way you are just covering the surface of the body. For fitting, scotch tape them together just joining the edges. I use a system called Lutterloh which is from Germany, but they have distributers in other countries. They do have a web site if you search the Web. The patterns are a miniature of the design and you use their special measuring tape to extend the pattern to your size. The y publish a new design pamphlet every quarter and were $25 per the last one I ordered. All sleeves and collars are interchangeable. The fit seems to be for the hour glass figure, but there are designs that you can tell are made for the athletic (wide shoulder, slim hip) build. |
User: gmcsewer
Member since: 08-19-2003 Total posts: 45 |
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