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From: keljo60
Date: 08-03-2006, 11:38 PM (1 of 19)
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Ok, here's the thing. My dd will turn 16 in Sept and I want to make her a medeival outfit for a gift, dress & hooded cape, she's into the gothic look. I just took her measurements (36.5/32/40) and the patterns say I should buy a 14/16! RTW she wears about an 8 or 9. I'm afraid to go ahead and do the pattern size and have it be too big on her because it will be a surprise and I won't be able to have her try it on. What do you "expert" seamstress friends suggest? I am thinking of using McCalls patterns M4490 & M4698, or ones along those lines. Kelly
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup! |
User: keljo60
Member since: 07-30-2006 Total posts: 154 
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From: Debby215
Date: 08-04-2006, 12:30 AM (2 of 19)
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Hey KELLY, check your PM's, I sent you my email and was wondering if you could possibly email me the picture of the sewing table your husband built you PLEASE????? Thanks, Debby Debby
So much fabric....... So little time!! |
User: Debby215
Member since: 11-14-2001 Total posts: 611 
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From: stephi
Date: 08-04-2006, 08:41 AM (3 of 19)
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Hey Kelly, The 14/16 isnt talking about jr sizes is it?? I know that before my D was born I could wear a 14 in Jrs and I wore a 7/8 in ladies clothing. Even if it is then I say its easier to take away excess than it is to expand what isnt there!! So you suprise her with it and if its a little too big then pull it in. OR lay out the pattern and do some simple measuring to see what size is closest. Leave room for seams!! 
Stephi
"No body knows what it is that I do until I dont do it" "if you do what you have always done you will get what you have always gotten" |
User: stephi
Member since: 03-17-2006 Total posts: 361 
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From: BeckyW
Date: 08-04-2006, 10:11 AM (4 of 19)
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I really don’t have any advice about the size. Though I will say that I wear like a 4 in the top and need an 8 pattern and wear like a 6 in the bottoms and need a 10. It is kind of depressing to have to buy a size that sounds bigger, but what is in a number! I really don’t want to discourage you or scare you off from the project, because I think this would be a wonderful gift. I will say that the pattern M4490 is pretty fitted. I am by no means a fitting expert. My worry about this pattern is that with the princess seaming the bust, waist and hips have a particular place to go. If your daughter is shorter waisted or longer waisted than the pattern, it won’t fit right. If your daughter wears a C-cup or more you might need a smaller size than you think (needs to fit in the shoulders), but need to allow for a bigger bust. Patterns are designed for a 5’6” frame and B-cup. I don’t think I would attempt this pattern without first making a muslin to check fit. I would take some muslin, some of your stash fabric that you hate, or some fabric from the $1 table at Walmart and make up the pattern at least to the length of just below the hips in your best guess of a size. As for a gift, could you make the cape and include the dress pattern, fabric and trim in the box? Once you buy the pattern, I would just clip the sizing off the corner of the envelope. That way you can just forget about the number. Let us know what you decide and how everything comes out. I would love to see a pic of the birthday girl when it is finished. |
User: BeckyW
Member since: 12-25-2004 Total posts: 24 |
From: paroper
Date: 08-04-2006, 11:15 AM (5 of 19)
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Those measurments are very close to both of my dd's. They wear size 14 top, 16 waist and hips. Of course, in many patterns the 14 part is the crucial portion because many patterns are not that fitted in the hips and waist. I have a lot of problems because my girls are not very endowed and I end up making adjustments in the top to flatter the bust anyway. If your daughter happens to have a larger cup size you may need to get a 12 and alter the bustline but if she is a B cup you should be in business with a 14. If you have a choice and can get a pattern that is 12-14-16, get it just to be comfortable.
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: plrlegal
Date: 08-04-2006, 11:16 AM (6 of 19)
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Kelly this is just an fyi -- the finished measurements for the top of the dress should be printed on one of the front pieces of the pattern and I think the same thing should be printed for the skirt if they are different pieces. You could take your daughter's measurements and compare them to the finished measurements printed on the pattern pieces and that should give you some idea of how close the fit will be or where you might need to adjust the pattern. Patsy Patsy
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User: plrlegal
Member since: 05-19-2001 Total posts: 318 |
From: keljo60
Date: 08-04-2006, 11:37 AM (7 of 19)
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I think Jenna is a C-cup, but I can find that out. I will have to get a few more specific measurements, i.e. bust point and spread. She's about 5'4", so I made sure to get the dress length, neck to floor and neck to waist length, etc., so I should be ok there. I've made this type of pattern before so I should be ok. The patterns are multi-sized with 14 being the cuttoff from the smaller sizes and 16 for the larger! When she was little I made dress for her in a similar style and it looked so good on her, she really carries the feminine styles so well, she just won't wear them!
Kelly
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup! |
User: keljo60
Member since: 07-30-2006 Total posts: 154
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From: paroper
Date: 08-04-2006, 11:42 AM (8 of 19)
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That is a good cut off because, depending on the pattern, the hip size may not even be a factor. At any rate, hips are easy to adjust. I'd buy the one with the 14 as the top size and I think you'll be cookin'!
pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: stephi
Date: 08-04-2006, 12:51 PM (9 of 19)
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Hey kelly, You might also find a stretchy velvet to make it out of! That may compensate for the "bustiness" some. Are you going to do the butterfly (not sure of the real name) sleeves?? I like those the best, especially when you put a sheer organza insert in them  Not to make your project more than it already is, hehehe!! Maybe a deep wine velvet and gold accents with a dark not flowery but colerful cape and gold rope ties!! wow you can have alot of fun and creative freedom with that!!
Stephi
"No body knows what it is that I do until I dont do it" "if you do what you have always done you will get what you have always gotten" |
User: stephi
Member since: 03-17-2006 Total posts: 361
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From: Mom of Six
Date: 08-04-2006, 01:05 PM (10 of 19)
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I just mesured my 14 YO waist for a skirt I am making her. She wears a size 12 womens in RTW according to the pattern I should make her a size 20/22 skirt. I held the pattern piece up to her added an inch to the center fold & I will hope it comes out right. It is a tiered skirt so I will do the top tier before I add any gathered layers that way If I am wrong I can make a new top. I'm off to take the kids swimming at my sisters now. I hope to work on it tonight. Barb
Happiness is having time to sew!! |
User: Mom of Six
Member since: 11-03-2001 Total posts: 1115 
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From: keljo60
Date: 08-04-2006, 04:23 PM (11 of 19)
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Hi Stephi, Yes, I'm planning on doing the "butterfly" sleeves, she has wanted a dress with those sleeves for a long time. I was thinking of a maroon lightweight velvet type, but I saw this really pretty sheer "metallic" green that would be beautiful as an overlay on a black fabric. For the cape, she loves "creepy" stuff, so I'm thinking something in a type of spider net. I have something now, but I don't think I have enough. If I do the dark velvet, then a nice Celtic ribbon along the edges would be spectacular, and much easier than doing the overlay! Kelly
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup! |
User: keljo60
Member since: 07-30-2006 Total posts: 154
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From: VenusElaine
Date: 08-04-2006, 10:32 PM (12 of 19)
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First of all, as mentioned here previously, size is just a number. For many years pattern sizes have been standardized within the industry. RTW sizes are whatever the designer decides to put on it, and Ladies, they are playing to our vanity, which is exactly what is is called in the trade "vanity sizing". Generally, the more expensive the clothing, the smaller the size! I alter RTW for a living, and believe me when I say that the women I serve are the same "size" I am, their clothing is just "smaller". My sister recently sent me some clothes when she lost weight and there was a beautiful teal chenille sweater from Jones of New York. I looked at the tag, it was a medium, and I almost cried, because it was so pretty. The I held it up and thought, "That looks big enough". I tried it on and it fit great! My point is, I have not worn a medium women's size since I was twelve years old. At that age I was a 36-C. I am now a 38-G, order bras from England to get a decent fit, and pay no attention to the size numbers. Get the pattern that is big enough for her largest measurement (bust, waist, or hips) and adjust from there. Good luck with your project, and even if it needs "tweaking" after you give it to her, I am sure she will appreciate it greatly. VenusElaine "Always put as much effort into your marriage as you do into your wedding."
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User: VenusElaine
Member since: 10-22-2005 Total posts: 126 |
From: paroper
Date: 08-04-2006, 10:50 PM (13 of 19)
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I agree with the vanity sizing thing 100%. In the mid 1960's the industry was all over the map and the patterns for clothing were much differently proportioned, esp in the bust and waist. Then came "New Sizing". For a while you could buy old sizing and new...until all the old patterns were phased out. (The old patterns ran 55-75 cents....the new patterns were 1.25...wasn't all about sizing). That lasted a few years and of course the "major labels" still had their larger sizes. Now the only ones who have stuck with the program are the pattern companies and over the last several years McCalls and Simplicity patterns have started doing the same thing as the RTW companies...giving you one size and then filling it with huge ease. I don't agree with buying for the larger size though. If the larger size is on top...yes I do agree. However, the thing is that there are a lot of things to correct if the top of the pattern is not right. Shoulders, width and slope, neck size (gaps and pulls), armscye (never can spell it) cut and shape, bust fit and bust point are all major areas to adjust. Hips and waist are easy to adjust up or down. When the size is enlarged the size is enlarged all over, not just on the sides or in the middle...the shoulder seams get higher, the slope of the arm hole changes...just look at your patterns and the grading...there is a LOT involved! That is why I buy for the shoulders and bust. pam
Bernina 200e, Artista V5 Designer Plus, Explorations, Magic Box, Bernina 2000DE & 335 Bernette Serger, Bernina 1530 Sewing Machine, Bernina 1300 DC Overlock (with coverstitch) |
User: paroper
Member since: 02-03-2004 Total posts: 3775 |
From: Kitty3
Date: 08-05-2006, 06:43 AM (14 of 19)
| I am going to stick my nose in here for just a second. Printed on the pattern pieces are the actual inches if made without alterations the piece will come out to be. Example, if your bust is 36 and the inches printed on the bust piece is 36, it will fit you without any "breathing room" or ease. When you get into really fitted clothing make a muslin sample of the top before cutting your good fabric. The sizes on the envelope are a starting place. Check the pattern pieces actual inches also. . . . |
User: Kitty3
Member since: 08-13-2005 Total posts: 17 
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From: cshortsew
Date: 08-05-2006, 09:36 AM (15 of 19)
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When she was little I made dress for her in a similar style and it looked so good on her, she really carries the feminine styles so well, she just won't wear them! There is still hope that some day she will like feminine styles again. I've attached a picture of my youngest daughter in a dress like the one you're planning to make. I made the dress for her using Simpicity 8619 when she was about 15 years old for a drama production, but she wore it at other times also, her gothic look was to the point that people at church were asking her if she was in a cult. She is now 22 years old and wears fashionable, feminine skirts, tops, pants etc. to work every day, in lots of different colors. I don't know what her measurements were at the time, but I think she was bigger than your daughter. I checked the pattern and I had cut a size 18. Carol http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g59/cshortcrochet/th_gothy_me.jpg (http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g59/cshortcrochet/gothy_me.jpg) cshortsew
Projects Completed in 2007: Sewing: biscuit quilt, 7 baby dress sets, piggy pillow, 7 baby pants, eyeglass holder, purse, 5 baby outfits, toddler dress set Crocheting: red purse, piggy slippers, sweater shawl, 5 pr. sock trims, 89 squares, baby sweater, 2 afghans, toddler harness, baby poncho, baby dress Other: 14 Autism pins Works in progress: Sewing: toddler overalls & shirt Crocheting: vertical stripes afghan |
User: cshortsew
Member since: 06-28-2006 Total posts: 380 |
From: keljo60
Date: 08-05-2006, 05:33 PM (16 of 19)
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Carol, yes, Jenna is smaller than your daughter was. I wish I had her nice curves! She can wear almost anything. She is finally getting out of the oversized grunge stuff, thank God! The pants/skirts I bought her for school this year are nicely fitted, and a bit tight, so she is kinda going in the right direction. Speaking of skirts, she was wanting a "tiny school-girl skirt", the kind with the pleats and plaids. Has anyone seen a pattern for one? Also, I'm looking to maybe get a Lutterloh system, does anyone have one they don't want?
Kelly
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup! |
User: keljo60
Member since: 07-30-2006 Total posts: 154
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From: VenusElaine
Date: 08-05-2006, 07:32 PM (17 of 19)
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Pam, After reading over the posts, I will change my opinion that for most sewers. the bodice fit is the most important. I agree that changing the fit of waist through hips is much easier than adjusting shoulders, bodice width, and bust point. I have been working with all of this so long, it just comes naturally to me, and may not for someone else. I am preparing to submit an article to this website entitled "The Forgotten Chapter in Your Wedding Planner: Your Alteration Specialist", I hope it helps anyone and everyone who reads it. VenusElaine "Always put as much effort into your marriage as you do into your wedding."
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User: VenusElaine
Member since: 10-22-2005 Total posts: 126 |
From: MartySews
Date: 08-06-2006, 12:27 AM (18 of 19)
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In almost all of the fitting books that I own, each of them say that one should measure the upper bust (under the armpits) to get the neck and shoulders the right size. This does make a BIG difference. If your DD is a C cup or larger, do a full bust adjustment and angle the side seams for the larger waist and hips. My own DD is 5' tall, has a 32.5 upper bust, a 36 full bust, 26 waist and 34 hips. I buy her patterns the size of her upper bust and adjust from that point. Hope that this bit of info will help you come up with a beautiful well fitted gown for your DD. Happy Stitching! Marty
It takes one moment to change a life.
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User: MartySews
Member since: 02-23-2003 Total posts: 504 
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From: LeapFrog Libby
Date: 08-07-2006, 06:09 PM (19 of 19)
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My books say at least 2 inches of ease is needed in the bust.. In other words if bust measurement is 36- then the top needs to measure 38, to fit across the bust properly...
Sew With Love
Libby |
User: LeapFrog Libby
Member since: 05-01-2002 Total posts: 2022 
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